The Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment exists to prevent tropers from making agenda-based edits or bringing up irrelevant controversial issues, but it's not always obvious if something breaks the rule or not. This thread serves the purposes of:
- Getting consensus on cutting overly controversial edits.
- Rewriting biased examples to be more neutral.
- Pre-emptively clarifying if a possible example actually violates the rule, or if it's okay to add.
- Making sure that the rule isn't just being used as an excuse to write a Zero-Context Example ("Some people think that X is Y, and that's all we have to say about it.")
See also the thread "Trump and ROCEJ
" for the specific topic of tropers sneaking their political views (not just views regarding Donald Trump, despite the title) onto the wiki.
See Pages Attracting Edits That Promote Bigotry for pages that attract ROCEJ violations that are bigoted in nature.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 16th 2023 at 5:25:14 AM
Are we even allowed to have a subpage (besides YMMV) for a single episode?
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Mar 22nd 2023 at 5:13:30 AM
Was told to post it in this thread, but recently Paperjamrachel edited the LGBT Representation in Media page to replace all instances of LGBT(Q) to LGBTQIA+. I'm all for added inclusion especially of groups that are traditionally neglected like intersex and ace people but making so many unilateral changes like that without discussing it first via what is probably a bot comes off as clunky. I can understand changing it for the main description, but it is probably written like that for many entries because LGBT(Q) is still the most concise and commonly accepted term by many editors.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I personally prefer "queer" over "LGBTQ" for such situations. Same number of letters but more of an umbrella term than the latter (i.e., its use for Queer Character, Queer Actor).
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Though a lot of people are uncomfortable with "queer" being used for anything. It's more encompassing but also more controversial.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
LGBT and LGBTQ are the most widely accepted and least controversial compromise terms, although understandably they're also seen as milquetoast and not as inclusive as they could be.
You'll also often see a plus sign attached to the end to make it more explicitly catch-all, like LGBT+ or LBGTQ+.
Angry babby
I think the plus gets it across fine enough, as the page already includes these groups as representation, so the specifics of terminology is just a formality.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I wanna be a cowboy, baby
i just figured it was a “first come, first serve” thing
Stan GaruKaru for clear skin
The entry for Honest Corporate Executive on Discredited Trope looks like an ROCEJ problem note . In fact, Discredited Trope has a lot of ROCEJ problems.
TearJerker.Rooster Teeth seems to have a lot of Real Life examples about the company's mismanagement and scandals, including some Speculative Troping that "hopefully [it] won't be an issue again".
EDIT: TearJerker.Achievement Hunter does as well.
Edited by lalalei2001 on Mar 27th 2023 at 5:13:15 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
the Retromancer
Creators aren't supposed to have YMMV subpages in the first place unless for works without own pages.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
he/him
Troper ~nargleinfestation has just rewritten the section about J. K. Rowling's views on trans rights, and some of the problematic tropes identified in her work.
Previous version, as agreed on this thread last month:
New version:
Ok if I change it back?
If so, mind if I rephrase the current comment to add a direct link to this thread? Might help with future changes of this nature.
(Unilateral notifier sent)
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
“Gender critical”? That sounds like TERF-y agenda-based editing.
Might want to check their other edits for an agenda. If one is found, report them to ATT.
Also yes, please revert.
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Apr 4th 2023 at 1:27:12 PM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
he/him
Their other change to the Rowling page is this one, on Write What You Know:
From:
- More controversially, The Ink Black Heart involves a content creator being attacked on social media for their opinions, and was written after Rowling's negative views on transgender people had become public and inspired backlash on social media.
- The Ink Black Heart is a book about toxic fandom and the harassment of a female creator by the internet. She is ultimately killed by an alt-right fan who was upset that she and her partner had sold their cartoon to be adapted to a film.
I'm wondering if it makes more sense to delete the last sentence (we don't need the killer's identity/reason on this page, for this example?) and combine the two:
- The Ink Black Heart is a book about toxic fandom and the harassment of a female creator by the internet. It was written after Rowling's controversial views on transgender rights had led to a backlash on social media.
After all, that's why it qualifies for the trope, isn't it? Fair?
resident girlfail
Yeah this feels very iffy (the edits, I mean.)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I think they need to be taken to ATT, judging by their edits to YMMV.The Ink Black Heart and YMMV.Troubled Blood. This person is very clearly a fan of not just HP but JKR as well.
Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 4th 2023 at 3:15:15 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
resident girlfail
he/him
Both of those were also an hour or more after I sent the unilateral notifier and called out the ROCEJ issues, so agreed.
Revert both + make the amends to the Write What You Know as suggested above, then?
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 4th 2023 at 8:21:58 PM
Angry babby
Does the JKR page necessitate a lock or is it just one persistent troper who's an issue right now?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
he/him
A handful of changes over the last month or two. This one is the first significant one by that troper, and the first since the Hogwarts Legacy attention has died down.
Since we now have a very direct comment on the page, let's see if it works, then go from there?
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 4th 2023 at 8:26:02 PM
No longer active.
Should we bring these pages up on the (now misleadingly named) Troping Works That Promote Bigotry thread, given how that thread manages the Pages Attracting Edits That Promote Bigotry sandbox and how these pages seem to be attracting edits with an overtly pro-Rowling agenda?
Are they actually attracting "edits", or just one single-issue wonk editor?
he/him
Just one editor since the Hogwarts Legacy attention died down.
Any more feedback on the proposed 'WriteWhatYouKnow' amends on Rowling's page?
I don't want to assume silence is consensus, but don't think the current/rewritten version is an improvement, so would like to get it rephrased.
Harkening back to the "complaining about China's social credit system may be a bit dodgy for the wiki"... LifeImitatesArt.Black Mirror Nosedive, anyone? (With some bonus misuse as it lists some stuff that existed before the episode, including things that certainly influenced it.)
Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 23rd 2023 at 12:17:34 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.