So Bad It's Horrible Cleanup

If PRCL'd, allow me to make a short mockup of its reasoning for the page:

• Was cut for being too controversial, as well as being unclear about what defined a let's play; whether it was creators themselves or their videos.

I really don't like PRLC'ing pages that don't seem at risk of getting remade a lot, but if this one seems risky then you can add it.

Any other thoughts on the Justin RPG entry?

We need to find hard proof that the Dr. Squatch ads are disliked by more than just /r/CommercialsIHate.

Edited by DongwaChan on Mar 26th 2021 at 7:08:49 AM

Dude, this is starting to come off as a Single-Issue Wonk. Why are you so dedicated to getting the Dr. Squatch ads listed as SBIH?

Edited by jandn2014 on Mar 26th 2021 at 7:13:02 AM

If you have to search for proof then maybe it's not universally hated enough to be noted on SBIH, which is for works that are seen as absolutely the worst.

I couldn't find anything besides r/Commercials I Hate in regards to the Dr. Squatch ads.

DongwaChan, I think at this point you need to concede that not everybody feels the same way about the ads as you do. If there's nothing we can find that indicates that the vast majority of people hate the Dr. Squatch ads outside of a single subreddit, then we cannot list them on SBIH no matter how much you personally hate the ads.

You're allowed to hate the ads as much as you want, but unless it can be proven they universally have resoundingly negative reception, we can't put them up.

Insert self-defeating post here

Edited by JHD on Mar 26th 2021 at 10:05:16 AM

I'll delete this if this isn't allowed, I'm not sure, but DongwaChan and I have been going back and forth in DMs for a good week now about this issue, and they think that it still qualifies even with obvious fans because of, I quote, the fans being "too stupid to realize they are awful and not funny". So yeah, Single Issue Wonk. I'm sorry if I wasn't supposed to say this, they haven't actually said anything harmful but for some reason this has been a genuine stresser to me as of late and I had to get this off my chest.

Edit: they added this to Critic-Proof

• The Dr. Squatch ads are reviled for their unfunny humor and failed attempts to be edgy, yet many uploads of their ads have more likes than dislikes and have many positive comments.

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Mar 26th 2021 at 11:08:36 AM

That's trope misuse on top of complaining. Cut.

We might want to take the issue to ATT. It's getting concerning.

Reviled by whom? Last time I checked, there aren't any professional ad campaign critics, at least not in the same way there are for movies and video games.

Edited by Serac on Mar 26th 2021 at 11:06:36 AM

Yeah, this is seriously getting out of hand. I second the motion.

The editor probably means "reviled by the general public." Since there is no way to actually measure that, it's just another unprovable claim in a huge pile of them.

And again, "the general public" and "critics" aren't one in the same, making it misuse on top of everything else.

I personally despise the Dr. Squatch ads more than anything on the advertising page. However it should be removed if the ads have any supporters. Also I personally found The Incredibles sequel far worse than Ralph Breaks the Internet (which I thought was good but couldn't hold a candle to the original). I'd say end the 2 edit wars.

As for the Let's Play page, I'm fine with its removal. Let's Plays tend to be hard to judge the quality of and we've had a few problems with the page. However I believe King of Hate should be moved to the Other page because he's probably the only one who fits the criteria and is infamous enough.

Removing Let's Play means we remove all of it. Listing Internet personalities as Horrible has been problematic in the past so I wouldn't entertain moving any of the Let's Players to Other.

Here's the current crowner, BTW.

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 27th 2021 at 11:13:33 AM

Oh yeah. I'm good to Axe Let's Play.

My stance on Horrible.Lets Play is that it should be kept. The reason given to support its proposed removal is that it's too controversial. IMO, cutting should be the last resort when dealing with controversial pages, and the page itself hasn't caused enough problems to justify cutting it.

It's not because it's "controversial", it's because it's troping amateur internet content and often becomes about bashing the players.

Also it's very difficult to qualify what makes a LP horrible due to the low standard of entry.

@mewtron I also think that adding specific let's players like DarkSydePhil/The King of Hate to Other is a bad idea because we've already had a dedicated Horrible subpage for him nuked because of excessive toxicity and personal levels of Creator Bashing.

@Jay While I see where you're coming from on the creator-bashing, I think that can be taken care of with a rule that only individual LPs should be described, not the people making them. So no discussing the hypothetical GamezWithYou in general, only listing and describing their worst playthroughs. As for your other problem... are you more concerned about the "amateur" part or the "internet" part?

@mew Barriers to entry are lowering everywhere you look. Back in the day, if a terribad author wanted to get their work out, they'd have to resort to Vanity Publishing or take advantage of nepotism. Now they can just get a SmashWords account. Thanks to programs like RPG Maker, anyone with a decent computer can make a video game. J. J. Abrams even gave a TED talk where he said that nowadays, it's easier than ever to make a movie. And he's right, just look at Tangerine and Who Killed Captain Alex?, movies made on budgets even lower than what Robert Rodriguez had to work with when he made El Mariachi. We have to acknowledge that now more than ever, amateur creators are able to distribute content on a national or even worldwide level, due to obstacles that existed as recently as The '90s no longer being nearly as much of a factor as they used to be. Technology is enabling more people to create in ways that were almost unthinkable not so long ago. The creative process has been effectively democratized.

So my question is this: if we're going to remove Horrible.Lets Play because of low barriers to entry, how are we going to address the constantly-lowering barriers to entry elsewhere? Are we going to start gatekeeping? If so, based on what? If not, what else can we do to address the problem while remaining consistent with the decision to remove the Let's Play subpage?

Unless we're prepared to answer these questions, I don't think we're ready to cut the page.

Unfortunately, I am ambivalent about the Let's Play situation, so I can't give my opinion here. I'll go along with whatever we decide to do.

Meanwhile, someone added Rapelay to Horrible.Video Game Generations Fifth To Sixth. The example is all about how offensive and controversial the game is, and doesn't really talk about its gameplay. Cut?