Hate Sink cleanup

his entry was removed but his video example is still up.

Edited by BillyPeepers92 on May 27th 2023 at 6:58:23 AM

Think you need to go here for a video to be removed

Also found this on Ben 10: Vilgax.

• Hate Sink: Vilgax is one of Ben's toughest, imposing, and all-around powerful foes, but this hardly distracts that he's an utterly abominable sadistic monster with no real redeeming qualities. Among other crimes, he's razed entire innocent planets and has tried to mutilate a 10 year old for his watch, all while thinking he's entitled to all the power in the universe. Even his supposed "noble" qualities ring hollow, and he still has no qualms enslaving millions or wiping out whole dimensions to get what he wants. In a franchise where many major villains have some noble or even pitiable qualities, Vilgax is by far the most consistently evil.

I don't think this is the intent for Vilgax. When him throwing down with Ben is one of then most fun parts of the work. If so they wouldn't bring him back multiple times and reinvent him as a more intelligent bad guy. Especially with way slimier villains.

A recap of the first episode of season 3 of Picard calls Captain Liam Shaw a Hate Sink:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekPicardS3E01TheNextGeneration

• Hate Sink: The show wastes no time establishing that Captain Shaw is not a nice man before we've even met him. He forces Seven to go by "Annika Hansen", doesn't bother meeting Picard and Riker when they arrive, and his personal introduction only makes things worse. Shaw then insults Riker and Picard by not putting the two up in rooms befitting their respective ranks, but forces them into shared quarters with bunk beds.

Shaw was a huge jerk in his first appearance, but later appearances give him more layers. He was a survivor of a battle with the Borg and got PTSD from it and that is why he was rude to Seven. He gives up his life to save his crew and recommended Seven be made a Captain before he died, he is a Jerk with a Heart of Gold by the end, not a Hate Sink.

Nix Vilgax

I elect to remove the Hate Sink example for Jordan Belfort in the The Wolf of Wall Street page because he does have a couple of redeeming qualities as shown in Even Evil Has Standards, Affably Evil, and Pet the Dog.

Edited by MaxyGregoryyyy on Jun 1st 2023 at 1:13:23 AM

Belfort's definitely not a Hate Sink. Completely agree.

I agree that he doesn't count because he has too many redeeming qualities.

I remember someone back then gave a counter-argument to prove Diavolo from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Golden Wind is very unlikely an actual Hate Sink. Before I even registered to get my account, I used to see the trope pined there in both his individual character page and the HateSink.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure

There have been two removals both on the character page Sep 18th 2021 and the series' Hate Sink page May 22nd 2022 respectively, and both claim the reason that he actually got more complicated/ambiguous traits on him (he even got mentioned on Evil Is Cool in the YMMV page for Golden Wind).

That being said, it does kind feel a bit weird that at the lower part of his page on the Worthy Opponent trope, it still somehow has a leftover of the mentioning of the Hate Sink trope, which wasn't removed even by the latest edit that was done on the trope in part. If there's an agreement that he's by all means not a Hate Sink at all, It's definitely safe to edit the part to completely remove any mention of Hate Sink related to the character.

Oh Diavolo wouldn't count anyway. Araki said he was his second favorite villain he created after Yoshikage Kira And his 4th favorite character in general.

He's... actually likable to a little degree? In addition to the two previous edit reasons that say he's more complex than just paranoiac and ruthless villain, and the newer meaning given by other sources?

Well, I suppose it's safe to edit over that part to completely expel any mention of Hate Sink trope, thank you. I might get my judgement too early though, but I assume people are gonna disagree with the Hate Sink trope on Diavolo, so I editted the Worthy Opponent trope on him to completely expel any mention of that trope on his page.

Edited by JustNormalMusicLover on Jun 10th 2023 at 7:53:32 PM

There's a relatively unknown but alarming possible misuse on FF7: About Random Battles (which coincidentally provides the page quote for Useless Useful Spell).

It originally had The Scrappy YMMV trope accussing Yuffie and Cait Sith for this with the quote text "Just kidding, guys! No one likes you!"

The last edit I seen was on December 16th 2021, which changes the trope (as YMMV tropes shouldn't be in an non-YMMV page, and the animation itself doesn't have a YMMV page), and replaces it with the Hate Sink trope. And I feel like that's taking too far and for no obvious reason that is well-explained.

It's more of an author dislike as well as jokes on these specific characters even saying the quote. For reference, here's what it was supposed to sound like:

Narrator: (after a Random Encounter) "What a battle! Now that we have a break... let's change our party!" (screen fades out then fades in to the other party members) "Let's see here... who to choose..." (camera pans to the right revealing Yuffie and Cait Sith) "Aha! How about Yuffie and Cait Sith? Just kidding guys! No one likes you!" (Yuffie and Cait Sith look have disappointed expression, and the Narrator lets out a little chuckle.)

Anymore thoughts before I Do anything?

Okay with cutting Vilgax. He is legitimately one of coolest villains in the franchise.

I'm not sure Winterbolt from Rudolph and Frosty's Christmas in July counts. He's a fairly typical Evil Overlord and seems meant to evoke Evil Is Cool due to his design, powers, his hammy voice acting, and his skill at manipulation and pulling off his plans. Sam Spangles, the guy trying to shut down the circus, seems a better fit. What do you think?

Edited by Javertshark13 on Jun 14th 2023 at 7:37:44 AM

Yes crush Vilgax's entry.

On the other hand, does the Black Cat Demon even count? I saw a Hate Sink entry there, but it's worded like a Complete Monster entry, the rest barely add up (he's Laughably Evil like Bill Cipher or Monokuma as far as I heard), and I am not familiar with the subject.

Edited by Mr-ex777 on Jun 15th 2023 at 8:01:14 PM

Honestly I’m behind cutting the Black Cat… I’ve got my own bleak opinion on the game’s writing but either way I don’t think it’s trying to build its villain up as this figure of pure revolt. It’s the driving force of the plot behind Ellen. A story needs an antagonist and too much of what’s written in his entry has to do with moving the plot forward.

Absolutely cut Vilgax, not this at all. Also fine with snipping the Black Cat Demon.

Just made a Scream page, if no one minds, having counted about ten candidates.

Anyway I know removed Vilgax citing this thread.

I removed Amber and Richie from the Scream page! as I found them comedic and no real consensus was reached here. My argument is that while they were a Take That! to toxic fan base, it was also Played for Laughs. Not to mention their Villainous Friendship. It’s been readded without discussion before. I’m hoping it won’t happen again.

Edited by Furygildeman on Jun 18th 2023 at 5:31:57 AM

I answered that pages back. It was overlooked. But my own argument stands.

We have plenty of Laughable Hate Sinks; Kiki Mora, Richard Bagg, Max Broussard, etc. It’s just – like redeeming traits – they can’t be highlighted in a way that makes them likeable.

In Richie and Amber’s case, almost all the humour around them is done at their expense, while they’re villainy remains played straight. The Chew Toy is pretty common for laughable Hate Sinks in the sense of “These characters are assholes; laugh at their misery.

And it’s not only entitled fans, but by killing off a beloved character, mocking Sam for her issues, and Richie becoming a “sympathetic” martyr for Sam’s Hero with Bad Publicity stint. The narrative is clear that they are intended to be hated, with almost all their jokes being done at embarrassing and humiliating them.

Also the Villainous Friendship reads to me like a case where redeemable quality isn’t highlighted enough. Richie and Amber’s friendship isn’t given that much focus to make their relationship layered and complex.

I don’t really see how disqualifying arguments hold up.

Edited by Beast on Jun 18th 2023 at 6:44:42 AM

Tbh Richie and Amber are the only Ghostfaces I agree with being listed.

Earnestly looking over that Scream page I’m finding the same issue I had when this thread tried to do effort posts and expand on why a troper personally thought someone counted: a lot of what’s written can be ascribed to someone being the Big Bad or not having redeeming qualities and I’d argue most of these could be flipped around (e.x.: I could list out all the things Stu does in spite of being Laughably Evil and posit an entry for him)… I don’t think he or Billy should be here, for starters.

Stu actually isn’t listed, it mostly seems to go for the Big Bads but I still take umbrage with Billy, Mrs. Loomis, Roman, Jill and Kieran being up (the last one is just The Scrappy, in universe his villainy is mostly constrained to being the bad guy in a slasher series).

Edited by 43110 on Jun 18th 2023 at 9:49:57 AM

Yeah, I really don't think almost every single Ghostface counts. Yes, they're the villains, but being the villain alone doesn't make you a Hate Sink.

Stu is I think both laughable and somewhat pathetic so that he almost becomes relatable, and that's just one example.

Looking over the list, I think Billy and Kieran may be a cut, and maybe Roman; I do recall Billy having an Evil Is Cool rep, same with Kieran to the point he ‘’increased'' in popularity after he was revealed. I do remember Kieran being genuinely entertaining.

Roman felt like the movie was trying to give him a half way sympathetic angle, even if he is a self entitled Psychopathic Manchild. I could take it or leave it with Roman.

But I still maintain Richie and Amber as keepers. Same as Mrs. Loomis, I felt the movie was playing up her self righteousness too much. But that’s just me.

Edited by Beast on Jun 18th 2023 at 6:52:52 AM