Are these Character Tropes?

Although if they are extensions of the main page then they should have the same trope requirements as the main page. As for the organizational standpoint, as Black Mage 43 said above: "People like making / reading character pages because it keeps all the tropes related to those characters in a single place that' easy to find".

Edited by SebastianGray on Oct 21st 2020 at 5:03:36 PM

I'm not sure what you're getting at. They do have the same requirements- it's just splitting the character tropes away to avoid bloat and make things easier. But they're designed, first and foremost, to split the character tropes away. If it's just a free-for-all, what's the point of the actual work page?

That's why we all want it to be just "character" tropes- the issue is that there's no definition for what a "character trope" is.

I just more-or-less reflexively deleted an example of Adoptive Name Change that was clearly the trope page version cross-wicked to the main work page without checking if it was on the character page. This was because I personally added the trope to the work's character page before I ever put it on the trope page. That got me wanting to make sure Adoptive Name Change is, indeed, a character trope, since it's relatively new.

Edited by Nazetrime on Nov 11th 2020 at 1:10:43 PM

Considering that it is specifically about the character, I personally would put it in their Character entry.

^^ It's not as clear cut as e.g. Meaningful Name. If the rename doesn't deepen the characterization or if it even comes back as a plot point I would rather place it on the work page.

Except, as has been stated before, there is no consensus (and therefore no rule) that Character pages are just for characterisation tropes.

Naming Conventions affect how the audience and other characters identifies a given character. That's characterization, even if the work ignores it.

TLDR If any rules are to be introduced, I believe rules for characters in one-off works and Franchises / Long Runners with Recurring Characters should be different.

This. If I want to find all tropes related to MCU: Iron Man, why would I have to search through more than 10 pages with movies he is in? Currently most of the relevant tropes are collected on his page.

When it comes to franchises, character pages are effectively subpages of the single Franchise page rather than individual Film/VideoGame pages.

No Franchise:

• Film/VideoGame -> Characters as subpages

Franchise with recurring characters:

• Franchise -> Film/VideoGame as subpages
• Franchise -> Characters as subpages

In the second case Characters pages are another way of content (trope) organisation on par with Film/VideoGame/whatever. And as with any matrix structure, duplication will necessarily occur. Don't fight it, just embrace it :-)

Edit:Fmt

Edited by Asherinka on Nov 21st 2020 at 10:31:45 PM

Probably not gonna get a response to this since this thread looks pretty dead, but here goes anyway:

I'm doing some cleanup for Characters.Friday Night Funkin and I'm trying to figure out if these work as character tropes or should be moved to the main page:

Under The Boyfriend:

• Speaking Simlish: Played for Laughs during Week 6, as The Boyfriend's responses to The Senpai are just the noises he makes while singing.
  The Boyfriend: Beep bo bop

Under The Girlfriend:

• Speaking Simlish: Inverted; she and Monster are currently the only characters in the game who speaks plain English.
• Stocking Filler: Her Christmas outfit for Week 5 has a pair of white stockings that go up to her thighs. You could say that she's a bit of a stocking stuffer.

Under The Girlfriend's Parents:

• Hostile Show Takeover: The duo kicked Santa out of his chair in a local mall to set the stage for Week 5, and The Father makes sure he stays put by holding him at gunpoint. While singing. The Mom's even wearing a Santa-esque outfit.
• Recurring Boss: Both of them are the only currently available opponents that are fought in more than one week. The Monster was supposed to be fought another time before Week 5, but that fight was Dummied Out, so it currently is only fought once. Alongside their introductory weeks, with The Father in Week 1 and The Mom in Week 4, both of them together are fought in Week 5.
• Disproportionate Retribution (The Father): According to the descriptions of the game on Newgrounds and Itch.io, The Father is apparently trying to straight up kill The Boyfriend for daring to date his daughter. Even if he's beaten during Week 1, he still sends Pico during Week 3 to kill The Boyfriend.
• Absolute Cleavage (The Mom): Her Santa-themed jacket in Week 5 is open from the neck all the way to the stomach, just barely covering her breasts. Considering that there's no sign of a top underneath, she doesn't leave much to the imagination.
• Vapor Wear (also The Mom): She's wearing no kind of top under that Santa coat she wears during Week 5.

Under Skid and Pump:

• Everybody Do the Endless Loop: Their idle animation is the Spooky Dance, a Running Gag in their home series where they rapidly shift from left to right with their hands outstretched.^Note In their home series, it's only a mere 3 frames, and is 6 frames in Friday Night Fukin'.
• Hyperactive Sprite: Like everyone else, but they just don't stop dancing unless it's their turn to rap.

Under Monster:

• Art Evolution: Receives one upon its proper introduction. Its Dummied Out sprites have its face remain static and with a few instances of its neck clipping through its teeth. Come Week 5, its eyes and teeth can twist, stretch, contort, and pop out in all kinds of ways.
• Dummied Out: It and its song "Monster" were originally intended to be implemented during the Halloween update, with the creators getting as far as including all the coding and music necessary for it to be playable, but in the end they decided to leave it out due to having technical difficulties making it work, with there being potential plans to properly implement the song now that they've worked out the kinks following the Christmas week update. "Monster" can still be accessed in-game, but you need to go out of your way to get to it ^{here's how} Press 7 during a level to load the debug menu, swap the song to "Monster", then reload the JSON, and its original sprites are obviously unfinished.
• Hostile Show Takeover: Following Week 5's "Eggnog", instead of the usual Fade to Black to the next song, it instead smashes to black and cuts back to reveal the Christmas tree decorated with entrails and a severed head, the mall turned vaguely more eldritch as the Monster takes the place of The Girlfriend's parents, ready to sing its own little ditty.
• Meaningful Background Event: It is among the above crowd bopping along during Week 5, foreshadowing its takeover.

Under Spirit (spoilers, marked here but not on the page itself):

• AI Is A Crap Shoot: Exploited: The game not knowing how to handle the Boyfriend winning against the Senpai weakens his bonds, allowing him to break free and fight the Boyfriend.

I would personally move Hostile Show Takeover and maybe Speaking Simlish to the main page, everything else seems ok where it is. I can't tell in those examples whether Speaking Simlish is a one-off gag (in which case I would move to main) or whether it's a recurring character trait (in which case keep).

I'd also move Meaningful Background Event to the main page as that's a plot/cinematography thing.

I don't think Art Evolution should apply to Dummied Out stuff.

Regarding Speaking Simlish; for Girlfriend, she only speaks during the tutorial and is silent for the rest of the game. For Boyfriend, I assume his beep boops are a constant thing, but Week 6 is currently the only Week with cutscenes, so I can't say either way.

Good to know.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Feb 28th 2021 at 12:37:18 PM

Sorry to double post, but I forgot this one is also in Monster's character folder:

• Mood Whiplash: The very fact this character exists, along with its songs "Monster" and "Winter Horrorland", is a massive thematic departure from everything else in the game:
  • To begin with, its Dummied Out "Monster" song starts out simply sounding like a spooky song, fitting for Halloween. But then it shifts into talking about eating the main characters and doing other horrifying things. It takes things even further by exhibiting Lyrical Dissonance, with the music getting goofier and cheerier when the lyrics get darker and more disturbing.
  • Its proper introduction in the game at the end of Week 5 provides an even starker level of whiplash, especially during the story mode. The parents' two songs before it set up a bit of Black Comedy where they hold Santa at gunpoint while various cameo characters (including itself) hang around in the background, only for the second song to suddenly transition to showing a bloodied, mutilated head looking suspiciously like The Girlfriend's on top of an entrail-coated Christmas tree, before it makes its grand appearance and starts singing "Winter Horrorland", which is made worse by having even more deranged animations now that it's properly implemented.

Mood Whiplash is a narrative device, but he causes it both times he shows up, so I don't really know where it should go.

I'd go with the work page for that one. The Mood Whiplash may be caused by the character, but it isn't tied to the character.

The Final Temptation trope shouldn't be a character trope should it?

Right, we technically need to discuss that one.

I don't think it's a character trope, because it's an interaction between multiple characters.

It's a plot trope, so it's hard to find a reason to put it on a character page.

Then why do so many character pages have it? If it's more of a plot trope then someone should remove them, right?

It's like many other tropes that get misused on character pages: It has to do with a character, but it's not tied to them.

Plus, unless you check every character page wick, who knows why it's there? It could be potholed or referenced more than actually used as a character-list trope.

Probably due to the The Final Temptation being an important moment to that single character's arc. Even if it involves other people, they usually don't matter compared to the one who must overcome it.

What about the Groin Attack, which character page does it go to? The one dealing it or the one dishing it out? Or both?

I would say Groin Attack only goes on the characters page if one character has a tendency to dish them out or get hit with them. Like, in Mortal Kombat, Johnny Cage has it as a special attack in most games in the series, so listing it for him is valid. But if it's not something associated with one particular character, it should go on the main page.

Groin Attack is not a characterization trope and should not be listed on character pages.