Overshadowed By Controversy Cleanup

Cookie Run fan here, and I haven't really heard any of the "punching bag due to ntfs" stuff, just that the nft plan happened

Edited by Libraryseraph on Aug 29th 2022 at 9:49:47 AM

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?

Every other company had some backlash from NFTs, most weren't specifically overshadowed by it. When I think of Cookie Run I think of its weirdly intense fanbase before anything else.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Well, the first thing I heard about was the controversy involving nfts, so there's that.

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I've known about Cookie Run for a couple years but never heard about the NFT thing until it was brought up here yesterday, so there's also that.

On an unrelated note, would there be a case to be made for the VR Chat fiasco once enough time has passed?

Edited by badtothebaritone on Aug 30th 2022 at 1:29:37 PM

What fiasco?

Avatar by Butterscotch Arts. Used under license.

Yeah, I'm curious to know.

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Easy Anti Cheat got added and it runs like garbage now. Steam reviews will tell you all you need to know.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Aug 30th 2022 at 2:33:05 PM

should probably, y'know, wait until the time limit is up before even discussing it. there's a reason it exists. we don't know what they're going to do to address the situation, for one thing. it might blow over in a week.

If our reaction right now is "What fiasco?" that's probably a sign it won't be worth adding in six months.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Was thinking that myself actually.

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For Ooblets, do we use the game's Early Access release date (July 15th 2020) or its full release date (September 1st 2022) for the 6-month waiting period? I removed the example from the Video Games page yesterday, but that's because I misread the EA release date as being in July 2022. Then I added it back after I realized my mistake, but depending on how you define "release", it might still be too recent.

From the Music subpage:

• Sneaker Pimps are primarily known for two things: their popular album Becoming X (which spawned two hit singles, most notably "6 Underground"), and the controversial decision to replace lead singer Kelli Ali with guitarist Chris Corner.

I brought this up a while back, but I never got feedback. Is this legit? I've heard of the Sneaker Pimps, but not because the replaced the singer, but because of "6 Underground". I imagine that's how most people know them—and I don't think most people have heard of the singer replacement. I'm not 100% certain however.

Is my assessment accurate?

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Sep 3rd 2022 at 5:43:51 AM

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Use the early access date for Ooblets because the devs' absolutely tone-deaf bashing of critics of the Epic Games Store was made in 2019.

If the early access is essentially a completed playable game, the clock can start at that point. If it's a clear beta, the clock starts at the full release.

@ooblets: Early access

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Huh, speaking of which it's probably worth submitting Ooblets to the gushing and ZCE cleanup threads too.

Returning because an entry I mentioned when I was young and dumb (about 3-4 years ago?) got brought up. Cut the Sneaker Pimps entry. I was naïve then and read the YMMV and thought "oh the singer got replaced and there was a broken base? yeah this is controversial".

Was browsing around the wiki and found that Link Mario Samus removed this point from OvershadowedByControversy.Video Games:

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• While it has since largely been Vindicated by History and is widely considered one of the more beloved entries in the series, it's still hard to discuss The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker without mentioning the tremendous and still-unmatched fan backlash that ensued in the West over its light-hearted cartoon art style, which heavily clashed with the increasingly mature, realistic-looking direction that the video game industry as a whole was taking at the time. This wasn't helped by the game's reveal being preceded a year prior by a GameCube tech demo showing a more Ocarina of Time-esque art style, which Western fans had instantly taken to. The backlash was so huge that Nintendo scrapped plans for a direct Wind Waker sequel (at least on the GameCube) in favor of the grittier, Real Is Brown The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess out of concern that they may have inadvertently created a Franchise Killer, as the Legend of Zelda games are generally more popular in the West than in Japan, making Western opinions very important. Later "Toon Link" games would be relegated mostly to handheld titles and spinoffs (one of which, incidentally, wound up being a Wind Waker sequel), Nintendo became distrustful of Western gamers in general for several years following the debacle, and to this day the Zelda fanbase still struggles with shaking off the embarrassing stain of the Wind Waker backlash.

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What grabbed my attention was the edit summary: "Wind Waker is a popular enough game for this controversy to be a relative footnote IMO." This raises an interesting question: can a work count as OBC if it's well-known on its own merits and equally well-known for a controversy that surrounded it? I still hear people frequently bring up the art style backlash in retrospectives, so it's hard to say that it ever fully escaped it. Should the point be re-added on those grounds or has it indeed escaped OBC status?

Be kind.

Reminds me of the discussion about Doom and the Murder Simulators stereotype, where I was in favor of listing it as a "historical" example. I think the same principle would apply here.

Edited by nrjxll on Sep 6th 2022 at 9:59:20 AM

Maybe I'm just too young to remember but I don't think anybody really remembers that controversy anymore.

With Doom, the game was very controversial and the poster child of the New Media Are Evil frenzy, and even after escaping that reputation and continuing to make new installments it still gets brought up as a historical note since the "video games bad" movement still hasn't gone away.

With Wind Waker I think most people just know it as "the first Toon Link game" and no one remembers the controversy.

Came for the tropes, stayed for the cleanup.

If it stays, the entry is still very dramatic and probably needs to be rewritten.

Someone I know recently got into Lo Z with Breath of the Wild. If I showed them Wind Waker, they'd be like "this game is cartoony" instead of going on about the "collective stain" the Zelda fanbase just can't wash off.

There's just a lot of natter in that entry to make it sound like it was such a huge deal. "tremendous and unmatched fan backlash" is quite a phrase. Unmatched by what? The history of Zelda? The history of video games? The history of fans of anything, ever?

That's actually something that entries like this have a problem with. Not only is the fanbase never a monolith, but the Zelda fanbase, in particular, has exploded in recent years. One of the key parts of OBC is that the controversy is what is most well known to people who are not fans of the series or genre. And I really doubt that is the case here.

I think it was true at a point, as others have said. You're right that the language is exaggerated and should be changed, but ten years ago, Wind Waker's fan backlash was well known even to gamers who didn't play it. That isn't the case now, so I think putting in context as a historical example make sense.

Yeah, I'd agree that it would require a substantial rewrite if it was kept as a historical case. I do think there might be at least some grounds to do so, considering that the backlash was indeed a factor in Nintendo's decision to shoot for a more realistic art direction with Twilight Princess, and Googling "wind waker backlash" brings up a good share of retrospectives on the matter. That said, considering that they don't really cover outside opinions, it'd definitely help to probe around for statements from people who are old enough to remember (I myself was 4 when The Wind Waker released).

(Edit: )

Edited by bowserbros on Sep 6th 2022 at 9:41:42 AM

Be kind.

Given that the game's Wikipedia article has a (albeit small) section discussing the controversy, it should be kept in as a historical example.

I'd also like to see a source the claim that the backlash made Nintendo disdainful towards Western gamers. That's a bold claim.