That One Boss and That One Level cleanup.

KHII Atlantica is completely optional and the biggest issue with it (the music) is solved by muting your TV. Yes it's a terrible musical minigame world, but it's also a stupidly easy one.

It's so forgiving with such a slow tempo that it's hard to lose any of the minigames even if you're not used to rhythm games.

Port Royal can be legitimately difficult in due to the cursed pirates. They are fairly threatening even on lower difficulties due to being completely immune to all damage when they're not in the moonlight. Not helping matters is that there are two mandatory combat sections that require you to take on a large amount at once.

Arendelle isn't hard on its own but, it does have a really stupid minigame (the first slider when you're being chased by the dragons) and a decently difficult boss. Or difficult for this game, anyway. It's just tedious otherwise.

Edited by Karxrida on Apr 28th 2020 at 3:42:04 AM

I noticed that That One Level does not have an obnoxious/tedious/boring counterpart, unlike That One Boss (Goddamned Boss) and Demonic Spiders (Goddamned Bats). That One Boss and Demonic Spiders themselves are reserved purely for difficult enemy encounters.

One possible name for an obnoxious/tedious/boring counterpart to That One Level (Scrappy Level) is currently a redirect to That One Level, a decision I find dubious in hindsight (since difficult levels do not have to be obnoxious or annoying to play through, or even be outright hated for being difficult).

Edited by Albert3105 on Apr 28th 2020 at 5:18:11 AM

There's Scrappy Mechanic, which usually covers whatever made the level annoying. Although it could be argued that a level need not be hard, just frustrating to be That One Level. Frustrating could be because it's hard, but also because it's an Unexpected Gameplay Change or other reasons.

In either case I don't think we should start listing levels that are simply outshown by their peers or just bland, in which case KHIII's Frozen level isn't an example to me.

Here's the entry in question...

• The Arendelle World in Kingdom Hearts III involves Sora traversing through the endless piles of snow (as well as a detour into the Frozen Labyrinth) where without any guides, makes it very difficult to recognize or know where you're going or even where to find the collectibles. It doesn't help that the level itself is not just a retelling of the movie but the fact that Sora and co. are barely involved with the main cast, which adds to the frustration and slogfest of the level.

I just checked now while looking for this, survey also says Atlantica both KH1 and 2 are listed as well as Port Royal. I don't get what's so bad about Port Royal besides the fact everything looks dank and unwelcoming for a Kingdom Hearts world. I think it's the fact it's the first world to openly encourage usage of the hero of said world (Jack Sparrow) as all the enemies are immune to magic for the most part and the pirates are invincible when not in the moonlight.

Space Paranoids is also listed, though I think that can be due to the notorious nature of the cyber cycle mini game, other than that there really isn't anything DIFFICULT with it per se.

Edited by Klavice on Apr 28th 2020 at 8:45:22 AM

Still feels like you're getting hung up on the asthetics of a level and not it's gameplay (and gameplay is what decides this trope). Like a level being dark and bleak, or boring and rehashing the plot of a movie don't have much to do with how the game plays.

I played the Frozen level in KHIII, and while yes the plot was a snore the level itself wasn't hard at all (save for maybe the boss fight). Collectables are optional, so there really isn't much frustrating about it. Disappointing maybe, but not frustrating.

Looking at the Port Royal entry it needs to be rewritten to focus on hard enemies with a frustrating "only vulnerable in moonlight" gimmick and remove anything about the story. Space Paranoids might also need a rewrite (take out the "not all that hard" because that's a contradiction with the rest of the entry. Maybe also say something about the Devastator Heartless being demonic spiders or something).

What about Dethroning Moment Of Suck? Seems to be the closest thing to the place where you can put disappointing video game levels.

DMOS is limited to one moment per work per troper, and is also used for plot moments. It is unusable for our purposes.

Edited by Albert3105 on Apr 29th 2020 at 2:14:43 AM

There's Disappointing Last Level for when the final levels are lame, and Slow Paced Beginning for when the early stages are lame, but can't think of anything that covers the middle.

Although there's a question of if one boring level in the center of a game is tropeworthy, assuming there's nothing frustrating to make it stand out for That One Level. And given that low requirement, I think it would be a prime target for "any level I didn't like."

Edited by Stage7-4 on Apr 29th 2020 at 2:48:33 AM

Well yeah, but Arendelle is genuinely frustrating for completionists, because of the whole Ice labyrinth. I don't see how that doesn't make it TOL. It's simple enough if you're NOT going for 100% but considering a lot of people like to thanks to OCD and stuff, and it's difficult to backtrack through. Plus on Proud mode and higher those dragons can be kinda tough thanks to that mini game as Karixidia said.

Edited by Klavice on Apr 29th 2020 at 3:28:28 AM

That's not That One Level, Klavice.

Maybe we could list it under That One Sidequest, just a suggestion?

It's not a sidequest though. Maybe Last Lousy Point given how minimal the "rewards" are, but you're going to have to really prove how Arendelle is as bad a culprit as the Lucky Emblems or the others.

I think this really needs to be dropped, as multiple people are against adding it. Arendelle/Frozen is disappointing and maybe mildly annoying but not tropeworthy (besides the boss, Skoll, which already has an entry).

Edited by Stage7-4 on Apr 30th 2020 at 4:18:03 AM

Back to ThatOneLevel.Mario Party, with something I wish to add to the page:

• Hot Bob-omb. Randomly appearing as an end-of-turn minigame, four players must pass a Bob-omb between each other like a game of hot potato until it explodes on another player and the minigame ends. Oh, and if you are the one who had the Bob-omb explode on you, you lose 15 coins. Like Bash n' Cash, this minigame only serves to punish unlucky players by its mere appearance. Mario Party 2 changed it to a "last man standing wins, everyone else loses" minigame, but unfortunately it's a battle minigame, so now this time you can kiss up to 50 coins goodbye for losing.

Edited by Albert3105 on May 1st 2020 at 10:13:36 AM

I never found Hot Bob omb that bad. It's annoying when it shows up especially in 2, but is one mini game that's slightly annoying compared to games that rely solely on luck (Bowser's Big Blast) or games that are MOSTLY skill based but require a bit of AI manipulation (Skateboard Scamper) or Control Stick spinning mini games?

Hypocritical coming from me, I know, but if it's That ONE Level I feel it should only list a few levels possibly only two, so for Mini games from Mario Party we should only list ones that are notoriously difficult and hated.

Edited by Klavice on May 1st 2020 at 10:35:21 AM

I haven't played the OG Mario Party games, but the fact that it's not pure RNG like some other Battle Minigames (e.g. the infamous Bowser's Big Blast) leads me to think that somebody who's just bad at it wrote the entry.

The control stick spinning would probably fall under Scrappy Mechanic. Nintendo literally got sued over it.

Edited by Karxrida on May 1st 2020 at 11:03:57 AM

It's more of "somebody is guaranteed to lose 15 coins" that led me to write the entry, especially as losing 15 coins for being the sole loser is characteristic of 1 vs. 3 minigames, not 4-player minigames. The sentence pertaining to MP 2 can be omitted as losing 50 coins can happen with any Battle Minigame.

Edited by Albert3105 on May 1st 2020 at 11:08:19 AM

I thought of some entries to put in for the Dark Souls page. Since I noticed Fume Knight is on there, then I assume it's still alright to add DLC entries on the page.

• While Throne Watcher and Defender are like Ornstein and Smough, one is a Lightning Bruiser and the other is a Mighty Glacier. They are much more frustrating since you cannot use the arena to your advantage against these bosses meaning you have to wait to find an opening to attack them. Which is easier said than done, since both tend to attack you at the same time. You also need to kill them both back to back, otherwise, they will revive each other.
• Elana, The Squalid Queen has powerful magic and melee attacks, but what makes her really challenging is that she can summon several minions against you. If you are lucky, she will spawn a group of weak but agile skeletons. If you are unlucky, she will summon Velstadt. If you choose to ignore her minions while you attack her, she will summon more minions against you. She also likes to teleport around the arena, making it difficult to keep track of her and easier to get hit by her.

Remove.

So I am a little confused with Wake-Up Call Boss. The definition of the trope says that it is the first hard boss of the game. But on some pages, there are multiple entries within the same game. Should we only use one that is considered to be the first major challenge and move the others to That One Boss?

I think the Laconic is not correct. Wake Up Call Boss is a boss that signals that the general level of boss difficulty is going up significantly, not just the first hard boss.

If you label bosses difficulty as being from 1-100, a game with two Wake Up Call Bosses would do something like have some early bosses with difficulty 1-15, then a sequence of bosses with difficulty 40-60 then end with some bosses with difficulty 80-90. In that scenario, the first of the diffculty 40-60 bosses and also the first of the difficulty 80-90 bosses would be Wake Up Call Bosses. That One Boss would be a random difficulty 100 boss who could show up in any of those sequences.

I removed these 2 That One Level examples on YMMV.Paper Mario 64 due to the levels they described being more tedious than difficult:

• Flower Fields. While not overly hard, it's a level that tends to overstay its welcome for several reasons. Firstly, expect to do a lot of back and forth ping-ponging through its areas carrying items back and forth, and because of the "gating" system for areas, you'll have to sack a few healing items in your very limited inventory in order to get to these areas. Couple that with a difficult boss and gloomy atmosphere due to the clouds, and it becomes a pain to get through. It's also very long.
• Navigating Dry Dry Desert to find Dry Dry Ruins can be a pain if you do not know where you are going. The only hint you have is the gem you are given by Moustafa which blinks faster as you get closer to where you have to go. Dry Dry Desert is a 7x7 grid full of annoying enemies. And this is before you consider the other things you can find there.

Edited by ADrago on Jul 30th 2020 at 3:29:56 PM

Listing a Hopeless Boss Fight is misuse, right? Because there's an example on YMMV.Cross Code of exactly that.

And also, can we discuss other "that one" pages here? Because the entry for That One Puzzle on that page has some blatantly false information. The shots you need to make are no more difficult than any other shots you need to make anywhere else, and the timing is surprisingly generous for the game's final puzzle. Sure, it's complicated, and it involves nearly every object that your elements can interact with, but I think we can remove it for the overexaggeration as well as the reason that the Final Boss typically isn't allowed under That One Boss.

Edited by Serac on Jul 29th 2020 at 9:08:53 AM

Would anyone object to me alphabetizing ThatOneBoss.Action? At the moment, it's folderized but the folders have no organization, so it's just "folder 1" "folder 2" etc, which makes it very hard to find things

Go ahead.

Thanks! Also, did we ever decide what to do with ThatOneBoss.Atlus?