That One Boss and That One Level cleanup.

x2 Demyx (who hasn't been cut yet btw) and Xaldin can't be cut because they're way too infamous for their status as hard bosses. You can even go to our KH thread and ask about it. (Already did awhile back and they agreed that Demyx at least needs to stay.)

Xigbar is so hard that speedrunners hate his fight. Even casually (where you're not underleveled) he's very tricky because he likes to run away from you.

Hades and Final Xemnas can definitely be cut.

Edited by Karxrida on Feb 28th 2019 at 5:27:55 AM

A few days back I beat Luxord's Race to Port Royal in The Carribean and I really don't get why it's listed as that one boss. It's fairly short and as long as you don't go after every Heartless Ship and stay ahead of Luxord's ship it's pretty easy. I'd say it's more frustrating to lose and have to do the boss fight before again. I beat it on my first try though and I was playing on Proud. Would have done Critical but I don't think Critical exists in English KH 3. We'll have to wait for a final mix.

Out of curiosity, has anyone beaten all four of these bosses on Proud/Critical while at LV 1? Because I'm guessing it's doable.

Edited by Klavice on Mar 4th 2019 at 6:43:53 AM

I have proposed a FromSoftware subpage for That One Boss on ATT. Basically I would like to combine the Bloodborne and Dark Souls subpages together into a company subpage where the That One Boss examples for their other games (Demon's Souls, Sekiro, Armored Core, etc.) can go too.

Should I go ahead, and if so, should we resolve the "Dark Souls subpage having three images" thing first?

Edited by Albert3105 on Mar 31st 2019 at 2:38:04 AM

New examples were added to ThatOneLevel.Super Smash Bros Ultimate and I don't think all of them qualify, especially with spirits that negate stage hazards or up your power.

"* Emperor Bulblax pits you in a stamina battle against a giant King K. Rool with super armor. If that wasn't bad enough, this K. Rool is very aggressive, and since you face him on Garden of Hope's Omega form, you won't have enough time to avoid his attacks."

"* Squawks is yet another timed battle. Only this time you are facing Duck Hunt, with the stage being covered in fog, in the absolute worst stage ever to be covered in fog, The Great Cave Offensive. You'll be hunting him down throughout the stage while trying to fight in the fog, which of course the AI has no trouble navigating through, and you have to defeat them before time runs out. At least the "Ice Cave Chant" theme helps soothe the stress."

"* Three Sacred Treasures has a souped up Pit equipped with a Franklin Badge and the entire match he will not stop spamming his down special and side special. Projectiles are useless against him and he spams his reflector anyways. And be careful with close range combat and physical attacks as he has a tendency to perfect shield or parry physical attacks and follow it up immediately with his Upperdash Arm, which send you flying up and once he lands a few good hits on you, it will score him an instant KO."

"* TURN-TO-BLUE^note The name for when the ghosts turn blue and vulnerable when Pac-Man collects a Power Pellet, is not so much difficult as it is annoying. You face 4 blue Game & Watch's who are constantly running away from you and are really good at splitting up when you chase them down. Making matters worse is the stage this takes place in is Wrecking Crew where there are plenty of platforms and room for all of them to run around and away from you. And to top it off, it's a timed battle with only a minute and a half. It's a godsend that they updated the Spirit Board to include multiplayer as you are gonna need some extra hands to tackle a lot of these spirits such as this one as you can all split up after them because trying to tackle this one alone is a nightmare."

"* The Tails battle is brutal. You are pitted against Fox who is equipped with a powerful Ray Gun and Rocket Belt on Windy Hill Zone and he is assisted by Knuckles. Your gravity is very low and while that might seem like an advantage, you will quickly learn that it is not. As Fox is very agile, he will chase you down, but he's not the one you should worry about. It's Knuckles. As he isn't affected by the gravity change he is much more quick and agile than the two of you, and seeing how he is friends with Sonic, you'll see that he is just as fast as his buddy. Pray you don't get caught by his homing shot or worse, freefalling to the ground while he is digging around will land you straight into his rising uppercut out of the ground and it's lights out for you."

Edited by lalalei2001 on Apr 19th 2019 at 4:26:33 AM

Goodness gracious, that page has seen better days. Pretty sure every single legend spirit in the game is listed there, plus an excess of hyperbole, natter, and frivolous "dear god" statements. There's even a picture this time - I have no authority on page images (that's a job for the Image Pickin' crew) so I won't comment further, but I have to admit it feels like a bad sign. Well, from the top.

For reference, I believe these were the ones I recommended keeping last time: The Boss, Dr. Wily, Geno, Omega Ridley, Rayman, Akira, Sukapon, Pauline, 9-Volt & 18-Volt, Baby Bowser, Jeff, Great Fairy.

Meanwhile - and this part really frustrated me - this is the stuff that we zapped already that has been inexplicably put back on the page: Kapp'n, Rover, Donkey Kong and Lady, Ana, Hal Emmerich, M. Bison, Giga Mac, Chorus Kids, Paula, Super Sonic, Black Shadow. I am at least willing to revisit DK and Lady and Giga Mac (due to refreshing my memory on their battles and discovering that people have had significant trouble with them), but the rest gotta go.

I have to go to work in a bit, so I'll do what I can before I leave. I'll put these into broad categories to save time. Anything I missed I'll cover in detail later:

• Only difficult if you don't bother equipping proper Support Spirits
  • Tiny Kong
  • Squawks
  • Camilla
  • Caeda
  • The Wind Fish
  • Marin
  • Ho-Oh
  • Great Zapfish
  • Dry Bowser
  • Sun Salutation
  • Pyra
• Listed for poor reasons
  • Absolutely Safe Capsule - The entry straight up admits this isn't even a fight.
  • Judge - It's just RNG. Nothing special here.
  • Link (The Legend of Zelda) - It's no harder than a level 9 CPU.
  • TURN-TO-BLUE - Not hard, just kinda annoying.
  • Aparoid - See TURN-TO-BLUE
  • Juri - The entry absolutely fails to mention how predictable she is. She does almost nothing except Side-B for the entire battle.
  • Three Sacred Treasures - See Link.
  • Mecha Fiora - It's largely a fair fight, to be frank - the entry itself seems to admit to that.
  • Isaac - The entry does not mention that your opponents are, ah, kinda brain-dead. If you die here it's your own fault.
  • Yuri Kozukata - Again, it's a pretty fair fight.
• Not particularly challenging in the slightest
  • Fire
  • Bonkers
  • Sigma
  • PAC-MAN Ghosts
  • Futaba
  • Badwagon
  • Toadette
  • Warrior Mech Gauss
  • Unira

Edited by DocSharp on Apr 19th 2019 at 8:31:04 AM

Pyra I found extremely difficult even with lava immunity, but perhaps I wasn't using the right combination of spirits (and also not being good at fighting characters with swords.) I ALMOST beat them as Ridley with Medusa and Volcanion + Weaken Minions, but later was unable to do it. I can't beat Black Shadow either, and I've seen a lot of people on forums having trouble with those two.

Another super hard fight for me was the Legendary Bird trio, which I won by sheer luck and Peach's Final Smash. I never want to hear PK Anything again XD

EDIT: I had no idea the Franklin Badge was so versatile XD Also the page has Walkthrough Mode stuff that needs to be cleaned too.

Kapp'n can be trivialized with a wind resistance/immunity spirit and a Goldeen spirit, which lets you swim.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Apr 19th 2019 at 4:30:31 AM

First of all, wow, I was being pointlessly salty in my post and I sincerely apologize for that. I've gone ahead and redacted all of my negativity.

Second, I think I need to note the importance of "can I trivialize this fight if I simply use the auto-pick button?", and more often than not the answer is yes, because it can detect when the Franklin Badge would be helpful - and as you've said, the Franklin Badge is beastly. That was kinda the main reason I was skeptical of Pyra; Lava Immune+Franklin Badge makes it much, much easier, but if you've seen plenty of people who've been struggling with this battle, than I ain't in a position to judge - she may stay.

Black Shadow... mmmmm, I did the fight again recently and while I still err on the side of "not bad enough", I can at least see why people struggle with him (not enough space to move around being a big one), so he can stay too. Thank you for the second opinion on this one. Although, I would prefer if we limited how many 4 star fights go up - they're designed to be hard, after all.

Alright, there's a lotta shtuff to cover on this page, so I'll try to do these in batches, just to avoid a repeat of my saltiness from earlier. Here's everything from Animal Crossing to Kirby:

• Animal Crossing
  • Kapp'n (Wild World): The Kapp'n Assist Trophy is one of the weaker ones, as he can't actually damage you and can be outmaneuvered, albeit with effort. Plus, the battle takes place on New Donk City, giving you plenty of room to run around. I'll say cut.
• Castlevania
  • Alucard: Cut, on the basis that the Trevor battle also features Simon and the Alucard AT, as well as two other dudes to make it harder. Speaking of whom...
  • Trevor Belmont: Honestly, I think this one is "fair" for a 4 star fight. Enemies spawn slowly enough that you can feasibly kill one before another shows up, and the most powerful among them (Alucard) does not spawn until Simon's been on the field for a while. I'll say cut.
• Donkey Kong
  • Donkey Kong and Lady: Okay, I'm actually gonna say sorry for zapping this one before, because good lord I was wrong. This fight is bananas. I literally cannot think of a way to beat it without resorting to Ridley cheese. Donkey Kong's HP is way too high and his armor makes it too hard to wrack up damage at all. It's a typical "big boy big damage" fight, but it's harder than all the rest of them combined. Keep it.
  • Funky Kong: Oh shit, I remember this one. Yeah, this can stay; for a 3 star fight, I'd honestly put it on a similar level to 9-Volt & 18-Volt. I'll probably rewrite the entry to give it more detail.
• Earthbound/MOTHER
  • Jeff: Not contesting it (it's a doozy), just gonna say that the entry itself isn't very good and it should get a rewrite.
  • Ninten: Franklin Badge is your god. The entry itself even notes how helpful it would be. Cut.
  • Claus: Another "fair" fight for a 4 star. The only real "BS" part is the fact that he's made of metal, and keep in mind that metal enemies have been a series tradition up to this point - there's no use in singling anybody out for it unless there are additional factors to up the challenge, and I'm afraid "does more damage with a sword" isn't enough.
  • Ness' Dad: Snake's invisibility is the only hard part - this is otherwise the most vanilla 4 star in the game. There's nothing really special here, aside from the fact that it's hilarious, so I'll say cut.
  • Hinawa: I've gone over this one already - the fact that your opponents are also easy to launch evens the playing field significantly (they have reduced weight on top of it, so they die at like 30%), and that's without getting into auto-pick, our lord and savior. Zap.
• F-Zero
  • Black Shadow: Again, not contesting it, but I wanna point out that Reverse Warlock Punch is listed as a threatening attack for some reason.
  • Jack Levin: I did this fight again last night. The only hard part is Ken himself - the cheerleader squad of Wii Fit Trainers kinda just derp about and contemplate their own existence. Sometimes they throw a volleyball or toss out an Up-Smash, but they're largely harmless once Ken is dealt with. Cut.
• Fire Emblem
  • Azura: Maybe? I distinctly remember "pls halp" threads for this one, but again I'm still not a fan of adding too many 4 stars. Second opinions would be good here.
  • The Pegasus Sisters: Damn, I actually have no memory of this one whatsoever. This one's outta my hands entirely.
• Game & Watch
  • Fire: Okay, I've already covered this one in my post up there, but I need to iterate how bad this entry is and how much help this page actually needs. You are literally fighting G&Ws that do nothing except spam Up-B, an attack that leaves them extremely vulnerable and easy to strike and kill. Being timed doesn't even matter. This fight is, and I hate saying this, a total meme, and I'm frustrated that it's even listed.
• Kid Icarus
  • Viridi: The entry flat out admits how weak she is compared to the other Legend spirits. Cut.
• Kirby
  • Dark Matter: Ehhhhhhh maybe? My memory is weak and Nightmare takes it up a few notches, but I worry about how it measures to The Boss and company.
  • Bonkers: A similar case to Fire where it's just a hardcore case of "why?" Like, guys, this fight takes place on Jungle Japes, the map that got banned from competitive play because of how easy it was to avoid the enemy. If you can't escape a character, one that is restricted from double jumping, long enough for the hammer to run out, that might just be on you.
  • Star Rod: Again, second opinions would be nice. My memory is too hazy to trust here.

I'll do another batch tomorrow.

Edited by DocSharp on Apr 19th 2019 at 8:44:29 AM

I don’t want to zap this without checking first, but the Bonus Boss being listed in Yoshi's Crafted World doesn’t count by virtue of being a Bonus Boss, right?

God, the Smash Ultimate page is ridiculous.

Regardless, I'd like to propose the Baby Bowser Spirit. While it's another 4* "big boy big damage" fight, the presence of lava (lava immunity Spirits cost two slots) and the fact that it's a Stamina battle severely pigeonhole your options.

Also, I glanced at YMMV.Cuphead earlier and the TOB entry seems a tad large for a game meant to be Nintendo Hard.

Edited by Karxrida on Apr 22nd 2019 at 10:36:59 AM

Baby Bowser is already on there, i think.

Well, took my sweet time gettin' back here. I've already vouched for Baby Bowser so don't worry about him, and regarding this , you can go ahead and zap it. Bonus Boss belongs nowhere near this trope.

Alright, batch #2, everything from The Legend of Zelda to Star Fox:

• The Legend of Zelda (Great Fairy, Link, Wind Fish, and Marin have already been covered)
  • Saria: Most of the emphasis is on the fact that you're playing on Hazards Garden of Hope. Like, what?? Stage hazards/layout can bump up difficulty significantly (see: Pauline) but Garden of Hope is one of the easiest stages to use in your favor, even unwittingly. Otherwise, a very plain, straightforward fight. Zap.
  • Calamity Ganon: Tough call. It's a "Big Boy Big Damage™" fight, but without anything that cranks up the difficulty to exceed its peers. Still, a super-sized DORIYAH is worth noting. I haven't seen many complaints about it but I'll let this one sit for the moment.
  • Hilda: I'm pretty sure this fight takes place on Temple, making it incredibly easy to stall out Nightmare - and that's not even me engaging in Walkthrough Mode. The main reflex almost everyone has in response to the screen getting blocked is to run like hell until the problem goes away. After that, it's just a regular fight. Zap.
• Mega Man (Dr. Wily and Sigma have already been covered)
  • Mega Man Volnutt: ... Eh, close enough. Great Cave Offensive + a timer makes it stand out enough, I think. Keep.
  • Mega Man Zero: Nah. Assist Trophy fights are filthy, but this is one of the simpler ones. Cut.
• Metal Gear (The Boss and Hal Emmerich have already been covered)
  • Metal Gear REX: Ignoring how bare bones this entry is, this fight is way too simple to deserve listing. There's no next-level bullshit that puts it above the rest. Cut.
  • Naked Snake: Ehhhh, it's more annoying than hard. While you fight a bunch of enemies, their weight is also reduced a ton, making it way more manageable than the average Legend Spirit. Cut.
• Metroid (Omega Ridley has already been covered)
  • Queen Metroid: Okay, this is another BBBD™ fight and it's about as vanilla as it gets. Zap.
• The PAC-MAN folder has been covered already
• Persona (Futaba has already been covered)
  • Phantom Thieves: I'm kinda tempted to cut DLC Spirits some slack, as their belated addition means that 1) it's easier for fan complaints to be made visible and 2) they technically don't have to compete with the other Spirit fights, as they come with their own board and are considered separate. For this, I'm okay with Phantom Thieves staying up.
  • Morgana: A little too straightforward to count + a lack of audience frustration. Cut.
  • Caroline and Justine: Ehhhh maybe? It's certainly unique enough to fit, but a second opinion would be nice.
• Pikmin
  • Emperor Bulblax: Lala brought this up as a bad example up there and... yeah, she's right. The fight is largely typical and the entry fails to note something critical about K. Rool's AI - he's programmed to spam the Blunderbuss, making it easy to punish his attacks. Cut it.
  • Iridescent Glint Beetle: Well, this is it. This is the one. The worst entry on this whole page of unbridled sin. My soul has left my body and all that remains is my fetid husk. Please cut this and never look back.
• Pokemon (Ho-Oh has already been covered)
  • Eevee: Oh for the love of - this fight barely even qualifies as "stimulating". It's a very typical and straightforward fight. Cut.
  • Birbs: Mmmmmmm, maybe? Auto-pick is still a god, but this one is hard even with a Franklin Badge. Tough call.
  • Kyogre: Too typical. Cut.
  • Giratina: I'm half and half on this one. There's just enough bullshit in there that I think it can stay, but I'm not sure.
  • Arceus: Not sure.
  • Victini: Um, yeah. This is BS 101 right here. Easy keeper.
  • Horse Gang: I think it falls short, but just barely. Their reduced weight makes it much more doable than it would be otherwise.
  • Xerneas: Same as the horses. The fact that the gold status can wear off reduces the filthyness significantly.
  • Magearna: Once again, reduced enemy weight balances this too much to qualify as "unfair". Cut.
  • Solgaleo: Same as the horses and Xerneas. Golden Incineroar is kinda nasty but his lack of speed and range makes him less unfair, and Solgaleo leaves about as quickly as he comes.
• Punch-Out
  • Giga Mac: After giving this one some re-litigation, I'm cool with him staying up. It's a similar case to The Boss where the necessary mindset to beat him (i.e. running like hell and either shooting him or grappling him) may not be common enough among the general gaming crowd. It helps that the entry at least bothers offering details (compared to before, where it was basically a ZCE).
• Sanic
  • Dr. Eggman: Close enough, for a 3 Star. Keep.
  • Super Sonic: We've cut this one already but I think I need to go over it again real quick. Before, the problem was that Super Sonic's Final Smash was way too useless to be threatening, so I was okay with cutting him. Now? His FS has been buffed twice and is much more dangerous. I'm still not fully on board with keeping it but it's closer than it was before.
  • Tails: Noooooooooooooooope. Nuh uh. This entry exaggerates the hell outta this fight. Not hard enough at all.
• The Splatoon folder has been covered already
• Star Fox (The Aparoid has been covered already)
  • James McCloud: This entry opens with "You'll be glad Fox's dad is dead", which is a special flavor of "wow, didn't think I was gonna read that today". Once again, too plain to stand out in a field of cheap garbaggio. Cut.
  • Krystal: Not sure.

I'll do the rest... maybe not tomorrow, but hopefully before the end of the week.

Edited by DocSharp on Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:45:00 AM

@Albert: Good idea. Also some of them may have be cleaned due to them containing Bonus Bosses.

Speaking of Bonus Bosses, Hollow Knight has a That One Boss section that I think needs to be looked at.

• I'm wondering if the Dream Nail bosses count as Bonus Bosses, since as far as I can tell, they're completely optional unless you're going for a certain ending.
• I'm not sure about Gray Prince Zote either, considering he's also optional.
• Nightmare King Grimm definitely needs to go, since he's a Bonus Boss for sure. I think I might've taken him out once, but someone else added him back in.

Dream Nail bosses are optional, but they don't have the "very out of the way" requirement of Bonus Boss - simply returning to certain boss arenas while the Dream Nail is in your possession will unlock the fights. They're in the middle road between that trope and Skippable Boss, which I thiiiiink is kosher but I lack authority on that. Zote and Nightmare King definitely need to be explodified, though.

Edited by DocSharp on Apr 23rd 2019 at 8:55:58 AM

Krystal is a cake walk with Assist Killer, which you SHOULD have by then, so easy cut there.

James is also an easy cut as the fight is tough but fair.

Jeff from Earthbound is a "hard if you don't have assist killer" easy otherwise, and since a lot of these spirits aren't required to complete the entire game, yeah...

Edited by Klavice on Apr 24th 2019 at 11:53:35 AM

The Dream Nail bosses sound like they steer too close to Bonus Boss for my liking.

Edited by Karxrida on Apr 24th 2019 at 12:07:33 PM

I'm not familiar with Hollow Knight, but if you have to beat them to get a certain ending, wouldn't that mean that beating them is part of the game's plot? A Bonus Boss is an optional challenge for those who want it. If you need to fight them to get the good ending, that doesn't sound like a Bonus Boss.

I don't know if they're necessary per say; I haven't played very far into Hollow Knight, but my understanding is that the Dream Nail bosses drop a lot of Essence when you beat them. You need around 1800 Essence to unlock one of the endings, and I think Essence can be gotten in other ways.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 24th 2019 at 1:38:17 AM

There is a total of 3208 Essence in the game, and together the Dream Nail bosses drop about a thousand of it. It also bears mentioning the existence of the Warrior bosses, of which there are 13 and they drop a combined total of 1300 Essence. So no matter what, to get that ending you have to beat at least one semi-optional boss, and the DN bosses are no harder to find than the Warrior bosses. They're also scaled properly, i.e. they're not Ruby Weapon levels of nonsensical difficulty, and they're still much easier than, say, Zote and Grimm.

That said, Lost Kin is way harder than the other two; Fallen Champion is perfectly reasonable difficulty-wise and should be zapped, while Soul Tyrant can probably just be merged with Soul Master.

Recently, a couple examples were added to Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, and I'm not sure they count:

• The Blazing Bull just outside Ashina Castle continuously charges around, giving you very little breathing room. It hits incredibly hard with very generous hitboxes, all the while inflicting burn status. Sticking close to the Bull avoids having to dodge its charge all the time, but this can be difficult as the Bull has very tight tracking and can make surprisingly sharp turns. At this point in the game you are unlikely to be in the possession of a lot of Gourd Seeds, so your healing options are likely limited.
• O'Rin of the Water seems predictable enough, but she has a few tricks up her sleeve that can make her deceptively hard to kill. She can decide to extend her most common combo attack if you get too close or attempt to abuse the short version for an opening, has a dodge where she turns invisible and thus can escape your own combos and will relentlessly press Sekiro if he tries to heal while she is close enough.
• The Seven Ashina Spears minibosses. Though optional, they will make you work for your prayer bead. They hit incredibly hard, have a ludicrous attack range and fill up your posture meter in no time. Combined with their swift combos and hard to read patterns they can pose a greater challenge than most actual bosses.
• The Corrupted Monk Illusion can be this if you don't own effective counters, such as spirit confetti, snap seeds or the Phantom Kunai upgrade. Despite requiring just one death blow it has an gargantuan amount of vitality, takes little posture damage and recovers quickly. Its weapon gives it a generous reach, a heavy punch towards your posture and a number of deadly combos.

I'm not too sure about O'Rin, since her entry just seems like a "She is tricky to fight because X" and doesn't really convey that she's a wall many players crash into.

The Seven Ashina Spears minibosses I think can stay, but that's mostly because I definitely had a lot of trouble with them. I would like to hear other peoples' opinions, though.

The illusory Corrupted Monk is mostly "She's hard if you don't do these things," but I can attest to her vitality and posture; not too sure if she also serves as a huge wall that people crash into, at least by the standards of the game.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 25th 2019 at 3:50:15 AM

While we're on the subject of Ultimate, I'd also like to suggest a cut for Yarn Yoshi as while it can be a tad brutal, like other fights that involve increased launching, it's also very easy to win provided you defeat the enemies in time and the only thing really making it challenging is the multiple Yoshis. Other than that, pretty bog standard Ace level spirit.

Also, wouldn't the Persona spirits fall under Bonus Boss territory, which, as we've stated, is not this trope?

Edited by Klavice on Apr 25th 2019 at 11:41:59 AM

I wouldn't consider the Persona Spirits to be Bonus Bosses, more like "optional bosses." They don't have the "have to do some digging to find them" and "meant to be harder than the regular bosses" qualities, either.

The only Persona Spirit I would consider to be close to a Bonus Boss would be the Phantom Thieves Spirit, and only because it's in the Legendary class. I would still hesitate to qualify that Spirit as That One Boss because Legendary Spirits are supposed to be quite a bit tougher than other Spirits.

Looking at that page, I was like "Mother of God, If one entry for that game contains SNK Boss, I am fucking going batshit." Also, do Bonus Bosses count under That One Boss, since they are entirely optional? Because I'm planning create a That One Boss page for From Software

@Klavice I'm really sorry dude but after reading your arguments for Jeff I'm kinda struggling to see you as a valid source of info here. Not only does Jeff's notoriety override any kind of "not that hard" arguments, but you don't seem to be remembering it correctly at all - the Jeff Assist Trophy is absolutely invincible, rendering Assist Killer worthless.

Regarding the From Software page, I'm really not on board with making that. As much as I adore their games, the only precedent we have for a company getting their own page is Atlus, and the only reason it hasn't been broken into pieces yet is because of the Grandfather Clause. I feel like making it would incentivize more pages for more companies, which just makes it harder to find stuff in favor of a pseudo badge of honor.

And finally, I can take or leave the Phantom Thieves, really. I'm not particularly in favor of them going up or going down.

Okay, I'm finishing this damn Smash Bros. page right here, right now:

• Street Fighter (M. Bison and Juri have already been covered)
  • Akuma: Aggggggh I hate putting up yet more 4-star enemies but I don't think this one should go anywhere. There's too many "help plz" threads for it to be removed. Keep it.
  • Guile: Similar boat to the above. Begrudgingly, keep it.
• Super Mario Bros. (Pauline, Geno, Badwagon, Dry Bowser, and Toadette have already been covered)
  • Shine Sprite: More annoying than hard. From what I can tell, people usually tend to struggle for a bit, then get a rhythm going where they can evade the enemies and strike when their invulnerability is depleted. Cut.
  • Kid: For god's sake, it's a Novice spirit. The enemy AI is completely ineffective. I've never seen a soul struggle with this one. Cut.
  • Golden Mushroom: The spawning items make it way too easy to cheese this one, even if you're not trying to. Cut.
  • Metal Mario: I've said this about Claus, but Metal enemies are a series staple - there is no reason for any of them to stand out unless there are additional cheap factors, and that is not the case here. Cut.
  • Bullet Bill: See Kid.
  • Waluigi: Similar to Zero - Assist Trophy fights suck, but this one is much simpler than the others. Cut.
  • Mario Tennis: Uh, maybe? I think I saw complaints about this one but I'm not sure.
  • Bob-Omb: Oh for god's sake, just do what normal people do and jump out of the way! Or shield! Or just move, I don't know! This fight should not be here!
• Super Smash Bros. Not really sure about any of these.
• Wario (9-Volt & 18-Volt have already been covered)
  • Ashley: This one is actually kind of interesting and I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on it. Ashley can be trivialized by equipping a support spirit that negates her control flipping effect, but the twist is that I'm pretty sure you actually can't get that ability before you encounter her in World of Light. The result is a ton of people trying to brute-force a nigh-unwinnable fight instead of just leaving to hunt for an ability they might not even know exists. I should know - I did the exact same thing. I'm willing to leave it in limbo for now, but technically this one actually possesses the prerequisite notoriety to qualify, even if it is for a pretty silly reason.
  • Wario-Man: Too fair for a 4-star. Cut.
• The Wii Fit folder has already been covered.
• Xenoblade (Pyra and Mecha Fiora have already been covered)
  • Mythra: This is a reaaaaaaally straightforward fight, especially for a 4-star. Zap.
• Yoshi (Baby Bowser has already been covered)
  • Yarn Yoshi: I do actually agree with Klavice's reasoning here - the playing field is too even. Cut.
• AND THE REST! (Rayman, Sukapon, Akira, Chorus Kids, Yuri Kozukata, Isaac, Unira, and Mech Warrior Gauss have already been covered)
  • Dark Emperor: I can't actually comment on this one, because I won due to Ridley being a dumbass and falling into the pit as soon as the fight started. I haven't seen much in the way of complaints, though.
  • Tank & Infantry: I've said it before and I'll say it again - reduced enemy weight evens things out too much. Cut.
  • Nikki: See Waluigi.
  • Mallo: Why is this entry acting like Jigglypuff's Final Smash is dangerous. No. Don't even do that.
  • Prince Richard: The stage being Dreamland GB makes it far too easy to cheese, even unwittingly. Cut.
  • Party Phil: I got nuthin'.
  • Labo Spirits: I checked the history, and while I know this trope doesn't have a waiting period (nor do I feel it should) I'm pretty sure these were added only a few hours after they were released. So, uh, that kinda pissed me off. I've yet to try the battles yet, but they seem to be sufficiently chaotic/cheap, and they're only 3 stars, so I guess they're fine.

God. That took so long. This should be all that I think is fine to keep:

... Which is still way too many for my liking, but screw it, I'll take what I can get. Here's what's in limbo:

And with that... I. Am. So. Done. I wanna suggest waiting a few days for further thoughts before anybody tries enacting my project plan because this was a herculean task and I wish to make sure we're not fucking something up here.

Edited by DocSharp on Apr 28th 2019 at 8:27:00 AM

The Phantom Thieves Spirit honestly isn't too crazy. Weaken Minions goes a long way to help with each fighter, with largely vanilla fights until Joker shows up. It's hard but not strictly stupid by Legendary standards.

The Caroline & Justine Spirit is probably more uneven considering it's an Ace fight and you randomly take huge amounts of damage, but that can still be brute-forced.

Edited by Karxrida on Apr 28th 2019 at 9:29:48 AM