What An Idiot cleanup

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I would like to talk about an example someone is posting on the Peace Talks YMMV page:

• Arguably, Harry living with Maggie at the svartalves.
  You'd Think: Harry would leave Maggie at the Carpenters—between Michael's angelic guardians, Molly's Sidhe, Mouse, an archangel-powered safe room, and Michael and Charity themselves, Ebenezar correctly notes the Carpenters' house is one of the safest places in the world. Nor would it look odd for Harry to often visit the home of his old friends as much as every day, or to take their adoptive daughter out for trips once in a while.
  Instead: Harry goes to live with his daughter at the svartalves.
  The Result: He gets a reality check when the svartalves attempt to take Maggie into protective custody, and shortly after has to leave her with the Carpenters anyway when things start heating up.

The idea of Harry taking responsibility for and raising Maggie was discussed in the previous book where Michael and Charity Carpenter both told Harry that while they loved Maggie as one of their own, they aren't her real parents and she should be with Harry. And Harry couldn't have foreseen someone trying to kill the king of the Svarlefs in his own domain, or who the alleged assassin was going to be Thomas, Harry's half-brother.

When it starts with "arguably" it's almost certainly going to have other problems.

From the new Phineas and Ferb movie, Candace Against the Universe:

• What An Idiot: Super Super Big Doctor has just revealed her truth colors to Candace and has her strapped to a treadmill so she can generate more Remarkalonium, which turns out to be carbon dioxide, something every human on Earth breaths out, for Mama.
  You'd Expect: Candace to not reveal this fact to Super Super Big Doctor and let her think that she is the only source of the stuff. With any luck, Super Super Big Doctor won't figure it out and Candace can work on an escape plan.
  Instead: Candace states that every human breaths out carbon dioxide and that it's not special.
  The Result: Super Super Big Doctor promptly sets course for Earth.

While it's really common, do we always need this "Expect, Instead, Result" format? As that's a lot of words to just say "Candace should have known better for blabbing that every human on earth exhales CO 2."

Also given that this is a comedy show, I wonder if the entry should just be cut because this is clearly the intended joke. Candace blabbing out her insecurities is very in-character.

Edited by Stage7-4 on Sep 10th 2020 at 9:59:38 AM

This is on The Incredibles:

• As a result of the Super Relocation Act, all the heroes have to go into hiding and adopt civilian lives, making them unable come into action when a supervillain shows up.
  You'd Expect: Realizing that there are no more superheroes to stop them, supervillains would come out of the woodwork to commit their evil plans unhindered.
  Instead: For some reason, the supervillains also mysteriously disappear and become inactive until Syndrome emerges 15 years later.

Cut. I'd think the supervillains would go into hiding for fear of prosecution.

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Not necessarily - the whole idea there is that without superheroes, the supervillains should be able to overpower almost anything the government would have available to stop them.

Found this on Little Einsteins:

What An Idiot: Annie has to save her friends when they're trapped in a bubble, and she has to reach them before they fly too far away, but she pats and moves her hands in order to avoid obstacles, instead of simply flying over them.

Edited by fragglelover on Oct 9th 2020 at 4:02:58 AM

Young children have a much higher bar to qualify for WAI for obvious reasons. I cut the example.

...That's how they move their ship.

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WAI is on the Time Immemorial Index. We'd have to take it to TRS and see if we could do something with it.

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Given the discussion surrounding the widespread misuse and extreme subjectivity, I'd support that. Let's do a wick check.

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I've begun a wick check for What An Idiot at Sandbox.What An Idiot Wick Check.

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Looks good! Though ideally the page should be folderized instead of in a list. Makes it easier at a first glance to see how much misuse there is.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

How does that wick check differentiate between "examples I don't agree with" and actual misuse? Being an Audience Reaction inherently entails that people might disagree about whether some examples qualify, that doesn't make them misuse however.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

The most pervasive issue is people using it to complain about characters who:

• Are acting without all the necessary information, and thus working with what they have (not stupid, as saying it is is Fourth Wall Myopia)
• Are literal children doing things children do (not done just to push the plot forward, wholly in-character and to be expected)
• Are generally just nitpicks or taking things out of context (ignoring the actual details of the work to bash characters).

Really I think we'd just need to look at the information we're given and determine if it's just someone over-exaggerating, or if it's legit. Of course, it's YMMV, but there's also been a lot of confusion with the difference between What An Idiot and Idiot Ball, and we'd be focusing less on whether or not we personally think the act was stupid and more about if the example actually fits the criteria for the trope.

...This might actually end up being similar to MEH in that people treat it objective when it's actually subjective, or otherwise would be best treated as objective due to the criteria we need to use, but we'll let the wick check speak for itself first.

But you have a point. If splitting into "Misuse" and "Correct" is too nebulous, maybe we can find other ways of categorizing things.

Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 15th 2020 at 3:09:32 PM

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Could this be cut from the Tales Series page? Rita explicitly tells everyone in a skit that her magic (including water magic) is specifically used for combat.

• During the party's trip through the Sands of Kogorh, the characters suffer from heat and dehydration.
  You'd Expect: Rita, a mage who can create large quantities of water with magic and regularly does so while fighting enemies, to use this spell to provide refreshments for the party.
  Instead: The party is stuck popping cacti for water until they eventually collapse from heatstroke after the Boss Battle.

That can be cut.

Also there are entire subpages for game shows such as WhatAnIdiot.Wheel Of Fortune and WhatAnIdiot.Jeopardy. These shows aren't scripted, there's no characterization or plot, so therefore no point in calling these people "idiots".

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WhatAnIdiot.Harry Potter has tons of nitpicking and entries that argue with themselves, especially in the 'general' folder.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Dec 6th 2020 at 6:36:04 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.

This is on The Berenstain Bears at the end of the section regarding The Berenstain Bears and No Guns Allowed:

• To Make Matters Worse: This book has become remarkably outdated on the subject of gun violence, having come out before the current trends associated with mass shooters such as craving attention, a criminal record, a history of racism and access to weapons. Thus the Aesop isn't as relevant.

I don't think that last part really has anything to do with the characters acting stupid...

Cut that.

But the actual page itself might need a more thorough look through. The examples are...very wordy.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I've removed that section and looked at the other examples. Some of them also come off as complaining...

I've always felt as if What An Idiot entries being wordy is never a good sign.

back lol

Relevant Trope Repair Shop thread from 2012: [1]

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Gargoyles has a What An Idiot example that's written in a complaining tone, and another user claimed it might be misused:

• Yes, people of Castle Wyvern, treat the gargoyles — half of your fighting force — like crap and act like Ungrateful Bastards after they save you from the Vikings. Surely this won't cause problems later on when you need them the most.^note A stupid decision, but one remniscient of several incidents in actual history. Almost every class-based revolution starts from very similar seeds.

Do we rewrite it or do away with it entirely?