Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

You can’t discount half of the characters’ history and then claim Truer to the Text. “The text” is more than solely the character’s first appearance - it’s the characterization and ideals the character has built up over his many years of existence and development.

Also, if you think Lee himself never built up Uncle Ben as part of Peter’s motivation beyond his origin story, you’d be wrong anyway,

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 28th 2018 at 11:45:14 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Hmm...I'd be inclined to agree if it wasn't for the amazing scene where they comfort Miles and empathize with his losses. It's a very needed, very effective scene and it really made me care about all of them. In fact, it's what elevated the movie from an already amazing animated action flick to animated masterpiece.

Ironically, that's probably my favorite thing about Spider-Man as a character and why I actually didn't care for Spider-Man Homecoming at first. The themes of loss and guilt is what made me see Spider-Man as such a noble and sympathetic hero because he continued being a champion even when the world was against him. Into The Spiderverse really got that right and I felt that it was a much stronger and deeper film than Homecoming because of it.

Edited by deuteragonist on Dec 28th 2018 at 11:54:21 AM

See the point of Truer to the Text is that it exists with the awareness that there were other versions before it. So yeah Raimi's movies did the Power and Responsibility thing and used that to make Peter this Extreme Doormat Celibate Hero monk who pulls a It's Not You, It's My Enemies on Mary Jane, which is bizarrely out of character for comics' Peter to do. This is a man who has almost never had an extended period without being in a relationship with a woman, and almost always dives in when he gets a chance. I think Raimi's films captured the spirit of Spider-Man, at least the first one did but it made numerous changes to the characters in the first two movies, and that's the main reason why I have never been a terrible big fan of his trilogy, beyond the very first movie, which I consider superior to the much overpraised sequel, and I still think Spider-Man is the best Spider-Man movie.

I am saying that as someone who wasn't entirely a big fan of Spider-Man Homecoming either by the way. I actually don't like Teenage Peter after Miles Morales arrived. And Homecoming's Peter is basically a whiteboy Miles. It's just that I actually like a Spider-Man movie that's largely comic, Lighter and Softer, not too violent, and serious. I mean the Raimi movies especially 2 onwards have this weight of insufferability to it. The Garfield movies were worse. My feeling has always been that the best live-action adaptation of Spider-Man is yet to come.

I never said Uncle Ben wasn't important. He is. Just that the idea of him being this guy who imparted a gospel for Peter to enact and build a church on wasn't part of the character. If you are doing a high school version of Peter that draws inspiration from multiple eras but going to the classic era, then yeah, downplaying Great Power Comes Great Responsibility is fair game...because it was definitely not a part of the Lee-Ditko era. Not part of the character for the first 25 years, never intended and used by Lee and/or Ditko as any motivating element by itself.

Yeah but it also gets tiresome and reeks of self-pity after a while, and that's been a problem with the comics for a long time. It was also a problem with the Raimi movies, especially at the end of 1 and throughout 2. There's far more to Peter being Spider-Man and helping people than some vague half-remembered proverb that's earliest source is a parliamentary debate during The French Revolution.

Edited by Revolutionary_Jack on Dec 28th 2018 at 12:20:21 PM

I should mention that I somewhat agree with this. I remember not being able to read the Ultimate Spider-Man comics because they were just so damn depressing most of the time. I think it begins a problem when Spider-Man is just consistently unhappy and depressed. I think Into The Spiderverse gets it really right because there is a balance between the lighthearted fun and tragedy.

USM has nothing on the 616 Comics. And actually USM does have moments that are quite optimistic. A mix of light-and-dark. It's dark moments are really really dark however, but the bright spots are quite bright. In the case of 616, the stories after OMD has been consistently hopeless, depressing, and demoralizing, though the recent comics under is the most optimistic the series has been for a decade or so. My favorite bit of Spider-Man comics in the last few years is Renew Your Vows. It's about the one comic with Spider-Man I can introduce to small children...which is pretty messed up to admit.

Spider-Man was just all out fun. Like you had the opening section which dealt with the origin, and then graduation, that montage showing him design his end costume, the introduction of Jonah at the mid-point, the entire series of fights between Spider-Man and the Goblin until the Thanksgiving scene, which includes the upside-down kiss. And the Green Goblin was such an entertaining villain compared to the dull guys who came afterwards. Spare me the sympathetic, tragic, and complex bad guys, give me the fun-to-watch ones. Into the Spider-Verse captures that same spirit of fun that I had with that film.

Edited by Revolutionary_Jack on Dec 28th 2018 at 1:11:51 AM

I saw someone say somewhere that Peter Parker can be any age, but he has to have a mostly empty fridge and a crap paycheck. And I completely get it and agree.

Peter Parker/Spidey doesn’t have to be a sad sack always getting shat on. But he should NEVER be rich/famous like that time in the comics that he was basically Tony Stark. He’s supposed to be an Everyman in a way almost no other superhero is. If Cap is the best of us, Spidey IS us, a decent kid who struggles and makes mistakes but is overwhelmingly decent.

Edited by wisewillow on Dec 28th 2018 at 4:10:24 AM

See if Peter really had an empty fridge and a crap paycheck, he'd probably be chased out of a city as expensive as New York a fairly long time ago. And Spider-Man HAS to be in New York, which HAS to resemble in some sense the city as it continues to evolve. Which means that things can never really get as bad for him as it would or could for a person in real life with Peter Parker's problems. I'd say Peter should earn his victories, earn his Character Development...and achieve things on his own terms. He doesn't need to be a loser for that. His story is about personal victory and keeping his moral code and optimism. Once you remove that or shred that to a point past believability, the character becomes a schmuck. And Peter B. is an example of that taken to the logical end, where he's this joke that even Miles' Aunt May makes fun of.

I don't mind Peter earning some wealth and success but it should be by his own actions and growth, and not by inheriting stuff some other guy did jacked to his body. Or you know some internship and goodies given by fairy godfather Tony Stark.

See I find Captain America, especially in the MCU more relatable than Spider-Man. He's a guy out of his time in a present different from what he knew, trying to adjust to that. While as a metaphor that's extreme it's a pretty modern phenomenon. You know gentrification, change...that coffee shop or bookshop I knew got shut down and so on. And you know Winter Soldier and its metaphor was all about how the last sixty years since World War II was a lie In-Universe, which means that the rest of marvel and others tend to feel like Steve, their idea of the past and what they believed was stable is gone forever. Whereas Spider-Man, I don't know he's a smart supergenius who creates this chemical milestone in high school, is loved by his Aunt, grows up into a handsome college kid, and never fails to attract an array of beautiful women. That's always been Peter Parker. Whereas Steve Rogers is this guy who in the MCU has never had sex (which is unbelievable considering how smoking hot Chris Evans is)...and he's the sadder guy.

See that scene and their goodbyes were good but I don't think it was earned when you look at how they treated him outside those two moments. Like I can understand Gwen and Peter B. not being the nicest to him since he ruined their hair and attacked them respectively but on the flipside Miles and Gwen had a budding friendship prior to him ruining her hair and both Miles and Peter B. spent more time with each other than the other Spider people so those moments actually feel earned for them.

The others though? Peni, Porker, and Noir start demanding that Miles proves himself from the moment they meet and act disappointed in him even though they all know he's new to this. Don't get me wrong, those scenes where they're nice to him are good but I don't feel like their status as heartfelt moments were earned.

Edited by Chariot on Dec 28th 2018 at 4:28:25 AM

Peter Porker did not say a single mean thing to Miles. Noir and Peni did not push Miles any further than Gwen. It's ' Gwen who questions Miles' readiness and it's Peter B.'' Who kicks Miles out of the team. Peter Noir even warns the others that they are speaking within Miles' earshot.

Where there's life, there's hope.

The other Spiders want Miles to succeed and they were disappointed when it was clear he wasn't ready yet. But they also don't want him to kill himself in an effort to be useful.

Edited by LordVatek on Dec 28th 2018 at 5:41:44 AM

This song needs more love.

Gotta say, this film turned me into a legit comic book fan. Like, before this I was a fan of comic book characters and every now and then I'd buy the acclaimed classics on e-reader (Superman: Red Son, for example), but that's all changed now.

At first it was just "y'know I heard the original Spider-Verse event was cool, I wonder if there's a compilation?" Then I read it and I'm like, "y'know I heard they did a sequel to it, I wonder if there's a compilation of that?" And there wasn't, but I bought and read all the issues on comixology anyway. Then I was like, "y'know I also heard Spider-Gwen series was really fun, I bet that has a compilation!"

And now I'm here, probably around 60$ deep in digital copies of comic books and desperately awaiting the next issues in the ongoing Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider and West Coast Avengers (2018). (the latter mainly for Gwenpool, which I also loved the idea of but never read until recently)

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Dec 28th 2018 at 4:00:40 AM

It's probably the first superhero film I've seen that really does that. I've noticed many people watching this movie going to the comics which no other superhero movie really did in a big way.

The first GOTG did it.

ITSV is inspired by Miles Morales: The Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Men, and Spider-Verse, but it does take a lot of liberty. Miles and Aaron are almost unrecognizable comspared to the comics.

Edited by RAlexa21th on Dec 28th 2018 at 4:53:58 AM

Where there's life, there's hope.

By “half of the character’s history” I was referring to the comics, not the the various adaptations.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

The Spiders can be harsh but they ultimately mean well.

They are justified in wanting Miles to prove himself because they don't want someone dieing on their hands.

Its a stressful, dangerous job & they can't be carrying the newbie.

They are responsible people..... for the most part after all.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 29th 2018 at 11:49:31 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

The script is now available[1]

Oddly enough, this might be my favorite version of Miles, including the comics. Miles is just such a sweetheart in this film. Not saying that he's not a nice guy in the comics, but his personality just shines so much more here.

Yay, thanks for sharing!

Edited by deuteragonist on Dec 29th 2018 at 12:26:22 PM

Have you played Spider-Man (PS4). I like that Miles a lot too. Similar but different, a little older.

One thing I love about Miles in ITSV. His hair. That looks very cool.

Eh, I like the Obama hair better.

Where there's life, there's hope.

Oh I like the Obama-hair style (which he has in the PS-4 too).

But ITSV Miles' hair is modeled after his semi-namesake. See had his father (Jefferson Davis) not decided to have Miles take his mother's surname (Rio Morales) to avoid association with the family Black Sheep Aaron Davis, then Miles' name would be Miles Davis. His hairstyle in the film is actually closer to Davis◊ than the comics.

... I can't believe I never caught that.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I found out pretty recently. But yeah Bendis wanted his character to have a cool name but he wanted it alliterative so he disguised it with a Stealth Pun.

Miles' dad was a racist in the comics, hence why his name was Jefferson Davis. This aspect is excised in adaptations.

Where there's life, there's hope.

In the comics, Miles' Dad outright called himself Jefferson Morales taking his wife's surname. That part is excised in adaptations because it's such an unusual thing to do (even if it happens in life) that it takes too much to explain and they need a short-hand to confirm that Aaron Davis and Jefferson are brothers.

And the proper term is mutant-phobic. Let's not throw words willy nilly.

Could've sworn he hated all super powered heroes. Could be wrong

35 year old white man.