Welcome to the Content Violations Discussion forum, where we discuss whether a work violates The Content Policy.
Remember that the forum rules apply here
, plus the following:
- You don't PM moderators about stuff pertaining to the policies, except for thread reasons;
- We tolerate links to scanlation sites unlike in the rest of the site due to its purpose, although it's preferred to remove them when they have done their jobs;
- The forum is not a soapbox for your own views on the policy or on morality. Please leave them at the door.
Violations of these rules can result in a ban from the subforum, or from the entire forum.
Otherwise:
Also, keep in mind that there are works that we don't want flagged without a really good reason as they are not likely in violation of policy:
- Is a film rated below "R" for U.S. distribution.
- Is a show that can be aired on prime time television.
- Is a video game that is rated below "M" by the ESRB.
- Is a written work that is sold in major bookstores without an "adult" or "mature" label.
- Is an anime/manga/etc. that is approved for U.S. import as a non-adult work.
- Is read/shown/taught in high school or below.
- Is in another format and meets equivalent criteria.
What we're looking for:
- Pure porn, or porn with an Excuse Plot only,
- Anything that has explicit underage sex,
- Implied sex of preteens or younger, and
- Fanservice intended to cater to pedophiles (lolicon and shotacon fanservice can count).
A couple of guidelines so the procedure can move smoothly:
- Do not list whole indexes or works just because they are on a certain index or have lolicon, H-Game or shotacon on their trope list.
- Do not list works you know nothing about without at least reading the trope page.
- Do not list works that you know are G-rated but you find creepy.
- If it's paedophile-pandering approximately how old are the characters involved? What happens? Is it graphic? Is it merely implied?
- List what objectionable content there is, and how much of the work consists of that.
- If it's entirely sex, say so. People have different ideas of what porn is. We all have the same idea of what a work being entirely sex scenes is.
- If you're not sure about a work, say so, or ask someone who does know that work. But don't make blanket accusations. Post here: "I don't know about this work, but the page says X".
- Google and Wikipedia are your friendsnote . Do a little digging on works you aren't sure about.
Also, in the case of H Games, there is this questioning to fill up:
- When are the sex scenes located?
- Are they spread out over the game?
- How much gameplay is there between sex scenes?
- Are they only at the endings?
- How hard do you have to work to get an ending?
- Are they in every ending? Every good ending?
- Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?
- Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?
- Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?
- How explicit are the sex scenes?
- This isn't a headcount. Your opinion is only considered if it explains in at least some detail how you came to the conclusion that the work is/isn't porn/paedopandering.
- When a moderator determines that the discussion has yielded a consensus, they can enact its conclusion/ask a moderator to enact the conclusion.
- The discussion is only about whether the work qualifies as porn or as paedopandering. We don't assess anything else in this process.
.
Q: Why is this happening?
A: Concerning the porn, it tends to attract creepy edits that have brought us into issues with the adservers while not significantly contributing to our core purpose - tropology. Concerning paedophilia-pandering, such works are just plain creepy to have pages about.
Q: What can I do to help clean the site?
A: You can flag content as unsuitable using the flag tool, which is located in the Tools menu to the right of each article, keeping the criteria in mind. Also, you can help enforce No Lewdness, No Prudishness across the wiki, possibly though cleaning pages listed in this Long Term Projects thread.
Q. This episodic work isn't finished yet. Shouldn't we wait for the ending before discussing it?
A. No. If released instalments may violate the content policy, we want to take action as soon as that's established — we don't need to wait for the ending. We can always revisit a decision to cut or keep once the work is over, but that point might still be years or decades away.
Q: This work is not actually/primarily pornographic. Why was it cut?
A: This could be for a number of different reasons. If the work was deemed to be paedopandering, for example, it will be cut whether or not it's actually sexually explicit. Being pro-paedophilia or pandering to paedophiles is bad enough, even if the work is nominally anti-paedophilia. Of course, it's possible that there was a mistake and then you should appeal it - please check the reasons first, however.
Q: This work is being/has been cut, but it is not a violation of the Content Policy. How do I make an appeal?
A: Flag the work page using the button in the sidebar and state your reasons for restoration.
Q: This work is pretty much pure porn, but it's really good porn. Can an exception be made?
A: Nope, sorry. If it's mainly porn, it goes.
Q: Why would you cut this? In [culture x], it is totally acceptable.
A: The vast majority of our readers come from the Americas or Western Europe, so we will be adhering to what could broadly be termed "Western" standards. This means we will not be permitting works which sexualize 12 year olds, and nor will we be demanding that every picture of a woman on the site must wear a burqa.
Q: How can you possibly claim to know authorial intent? (Roland Barthes is my co-pilot.)
A: It is not important what the authorial intent was, only the outcome.
Q: Wikipedia have articles on all kinds of awful stuff. Why can't we do the same?
A: Wikipedia is a strictly academic site. They have to cite sources and a "no censorship rule". They also do not aim to be Family Friendly, and are not reliant upon third party ads for funding. Conversely, one of our stated aims is to celebrate fiction, and our generally light, non-negative tone is a reflection of this, which has led to much more gushing about inappropiate content.
Q: So should I take every article here as an endorsement of whatever it describes?
A: No, of course not. We have pages on Greedy Jew, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf after all. However, if we choose to focus our attention on schoolgirls' thighs or porn, it does reflect very poorly on us. Fan Fic Recommendations are a slightly different issue. If a work is recommended there, this should be taken as an endorsement by the troper who wrote it.
Q: Are we allowed to make forum threads about works processed by the Content Violation Discussions forum?
A: If it was voted "clean and keep", a forum thread is relatively safe as long as it is restricted to talking about the clean parts. Anything with a stronger judgement is discouraged on the forums.
Q: Where can I find decisions regarding a work?
A: They are linked from the discussion page. Sometimes the old list of content reviews or the thread list in this forum can help as well.
Q: I still have some questions/concerns.
A: We will be happy to answer them. There is a thread for this.
- Guro: Violence played for titillation. (contrast Gorn)
- 5P or P5: The panel that administered the policy prior to the review system being overhauled in 2022. See 5P.
- P(a)edoshit: Older term for "P(a)edopandering", deprecated for being inflammatory.
- Porn: A work mostly concerned with sexual arousal. Having NSFW or explicit scenes doesn't automatically make a work porn — it's when showcasing explicit scenes is the entire point of the work.
Also, questions about the policy can be asked here. They will be added to this thread's FAQ section once answered.
Edited by Mrph1 on May 5th 2024 at 6:00:30 PM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I never said there were. I simply said they would probably count as part of the backlog.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 2nd 2022 at 9:04:26 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Captain of USS Bajor
I just had the occasion to move the page for Nana & Kaoru (formerly at Japanese title Nana to Kaoru) because it's received an official English release, but I had a question about something.
The English release is being done by Fakku, who mostly do translations of H. I wondered, given they're branching out a little to non-explicit works with this release, if it would be okay to make them a Creator page (obviously assuming enough pages for 5P-compliant works from them can be found).
the Retromancer
Suehiro Maruo does a lot of porn, but the page as-is and select works deemed fine, so doesn't sound like a problem. Maybe you can add a note or something if you make it.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
LORD OF FIRE
This story is a Naruto/Warhammer crossover, in which a certain knucklehead discovers a certain brand on the Forbidden Scroll and decides to examine it. Taken to the Realm of Chaos, he is dropped right in front of Slaanesh whom, intrigued, makes a pact with the boy to become their champion. From there, Naruto seeks to become the "perfect" ninja in order to bring glory to his beloved deity. But Slaanesh's interference in the ninja world causes their siblings' eyes to be cast upon it, and it's not long before the Ruinous Powers begin to spread their influence...
I would like to make a page for this story, but the M-rating is well-earned, not just because of the violence, the usage of drugs, and language, but because of the ecchi stuff, with Naruto eventually becoming a bisexual hermaphrodite. Being a servant of Slaanesh means that Naruto becomes gradually more depraved when indulging his hedonism, and this includes slash, sex between teenagers, threesomes, and bestiality—Naruto tames a gang of deerlike daemons, then has them pleasure him occasionally. While the pornographic bits are not the main focus, nor do they happen in every other scene or every chapter, they happen often enough for me to hesitate to make a page without getting permission first, and to ensure it doesn't violate any rules.
So, may I, or should I axe it?
Well, the first question would be how old that boy is.
The second one, whether there is a story other than all the depraved sex acts.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LORD OF FIRE
Naruto doesn't start doing anything until after the Tsunade Retrieval Arc, so between 13 and 15, I think, with his partner, Hinata, being roughly the same age, though he does start building a harem consisting of slightly older (between a year and up to three years older) women and at least one boy (no Mrs. Robinson stuff, though he does flirt with Anko). And yes, there is plenty more content: the other Chaos Gods find champions and other servants of their own, with Khornate!Sakura being the most metal character (no pun intended) in the story. There's also an official war against Orochimaru that involves a good amount of fighting, and Naruto and others go on increasingly dangerous missions a lot as their powers grow with each worthy kill.
Edited by Pyromania101 on Oct 21st 2022 at 7:37:29 AM
Mmh. How explicit is the sex?
the Retromancer
A reminder that not everyone knows the story of Naruto, so try to keep it relevant to The Content Policy.
The two main blocks that would disqualify a page:
- If the work's main content is just sex scenes, meaning the non-porn content is in minority or is Excuse Plot.
- If the characters within graphic sexual context are not what you'd call "young adults".
It will pass #1 with that description, but if Naruto OR anyone else has sexual activity and are in 14-18, it may be on a very thin line, so you should probably elaborate on that part and double-check if the ages can be calculated with more certainty.
Edited by Amonimus on Oct 21st 2022 at 5:54:03 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
LORD OF FIRE
I'll check with author about explicit age of Naruto and each of his partners when they start doing it. As for how explicit, well, when he starts visiting those deer folk, one orally pleasures him with its tongue, and during a later romp, takes him from behind. It's quite lemony at times, and to be honest, I tended to skip those scenes, mostly because I'm not personally into slash, but also because I just didn't care about the sex.
I can assure you, the other stuff is very relevant, the major characters are not overpowered once they are chosen as Champions and have to claw their way up: the main trio still fail to get the bells from Kakashi, Gaara initially focuses only on Sasuke, and Orochimaru is able to get the better of the trio when he targets them in the Forest of Death. In the latest chapter, Sasuke being the only follower of Tzeench becomes a plot point for him: a Daemon he summons to help him in a fight demands that he start recruiting people, or face his deity's wrath.
Edited by Pyromania101 on Oct 21st 2022 at 8:14:20 AM
LORD OF FIRE
Okay, so the author of Naruto: Excessive Ninja said that Naruto and Hinata were at least 13 when they first copulated. In their words, the author told me "I don't know how certainly it can be calculated, but I was pretty vague with numbers so it could be left up to interpretation." The manga was vague about exact dates, as well, and we never saw anyone have a birthday celebration beyond Hinata nearly getting kidnapped on her third birthday by a visiting diplomat, which eventually led to her uncle's death.
Hinata is the youngest person Naruto has slept with, and all of the other partners are between a 1 and 3 years older than him. If this information means that the story won't get a page, well, so be it, I guess. I hope for the opposite, but I won't lie or break the rules, either.
So, do I have the go-ahead or not?
Edited by Pyromania101 on Oct 21st 2022 at 3:06:04 AM
Lots of coffee
"At least 13" isn't very reassuring, because I think 13 is still too young for explicit sex scenes by the site's standards.
Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 21st 2022 at 7:01:38 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I believe the minimum on this site is 16 if the characters are similar in age. Since you got such a vague answer from the author, who should know the ages of the characters they're writing, they probably aren't old enough.
Edited by badtothebaritone on Oct 21st 2022 at 6:03:44 AM
LORD OF FIRE
The author is going by the Naruto canon (which began when these two characters were 12, had Part 1 end when they were 13/14; and began Part 2 when they were 16) when it comes to that rather than just deciding, and the canon was very vague. You'd have to read it yourself. Still, judging by what's been said so far, I'm guessing that's a no to making a page?
Edited by Pyromania101 on Oct 21st 2022 at 4:47:27 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, don't make it. Sounds like pedo-pandering by our rules.
LORD OF FIRE
Alright. Thanks for listening, at least. See y'all later.
Edited by Pyromania101 on Oct 21st 2022 at 8:36:22 AM
Infernal Tales A Helltaker Story was recently cut, what do I do with the remaining wicks?
I'd like to apologize for all this.
Unlink them.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanWhat about examples on trope pages? Dantes Infanzia has a few. Cut or unlink? I think the former, but I'll ask just to be sure.
I'd like to apologize for all this.
Works cut for Content Policy violations can still have examples, so long as the examples themselves are SFW. So what to do depends on the example.
If the example is SFW, unlink it but leave the example.
If the example is problematic, kill it entirely.
If no consensus can be reached on a work, I assume we leave it in its current state?
the Retromancer
I don't khow can there be no consensus, unless the thread got crowned and voting ended on a tie.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Generally, a "consensus" means at least 2/3 in agreement, as I understand how things are usually done on this site.
(also, in CVD we don't use crowners)
The Ultimate Lifeform
A fic was just recommended to The Owl House, that is... Quite NSFW. My problem with it, is that it is a series of rated E for explicit stories featuring a couple that are both canonically 14. (Granted they are aged up by two years in the fic, but still...) Is this a cut? The description can be found here:
Lumity Doing It (Right This Time) by Anonymous
- Recommended by: The Nitpicking Troper
- Status: Ongoing
- Pairings: Amity/Luz
- Synopsis: Amity could have sworn she was dreaming; her Luz wanted to be intimate with her. The girl’s mind swirled at the thought of being looked at in that way, held, touched, caressed, teased, loved. She could swear she was about to swoon, when her brain yanked her back from the clouds. Had she really thought this through? It’s one thing to have a little fun alone, but with another person? With Luz, a human, nonetheless? Was she ready? (Or, after an accident, Luz and Amity decide to have their first time; it's as awkward and adorable as you'd expect.)
- Comments: An ongoing series, starting with the titular fic. As the synopsis suggests, this is a smut/lemon series, but what really draws me in with each story (and keeps me coming back to them) is how true to their characters the author keeps both Amity and Luz, despite the more mature context; they're just as adorable and precious as a couple here as they are in canon, and there's plenty of humor and emotion (both light angst and fluff) to hook in readers who are equally interested (if not moreso) in reading a genuine and sweet love story rather than just a smut fic. The author is also open to constructive criticism and suggestions for future stories, should you have any of either to offer.
16 is the lower limit for "acceptable" here. Is there an actual plot?
At the moment though, there are no unopened threads in the forum.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman