Real Life section maintenance

These sound like shoehorns, you can't have a missing episode when life isn't an episodic series.

I'd agree, that's objectively misuse.

Any other thoughts on Miscarriage of Justice? The 24 hour discussion period is almost up, but nobody has said much on it.

Missing Episode is not a narrative trope. The creators of Doctor Who did not sit down and decide to "disappear" part 3 of one serial, parts 2 and 4 of another serial and so on. It is a trivia trope, which by definition is external to the tropable narrative of a work.

However, the RL page is objectively being misused. Even some of the more cromulent entries tread into dicey territory (there's an entry on the Columbine shooters recording of the incident among others). I believe the NRLEP thread has come to an agreement that we don't need a specific category in order to cut a page, so I would just like to crowner it for misuse and natter reasons.

I'll support crownering both.

Both sound like they should go to the crowner.

I suggest putting in We Are Everywhere and The Topic of Cancer. Both real life section are short and are a little ROCEJ.

Edited by namra on Nov 4th 2022 at 9:39:12 AM

The The Topic of Cancer had two examples, one was general, and the other was an inversion, neither of which are allowed. I say had because I just cut both of them on those grounds (something you could have done). We're not crownering for two examples.

We Are Everywhere is slightly longer at eight examples. Some of which don't seem to fit the trope, others are fine to me. You say ROCEJ issues, but don't mention which ones, or what ROCEJ issues they have. It can probably have quite a few cut, but you haven't proposed a cleanup, since that would require more than two sentences.

Edited by laserviking42 on Nov 4th 2022 at 1:02:28 PM

For We Are Everywhere, the trope description and its presence in the Villains trope list make it seem like a morality trope.

It's a stretch, especially since the trope description states that heroes can say it as well. It is a statement meant for intimidation, but that could just as easily be a hero telling a totalitarian government that the resistance is everywhere.

Extra Y, Extra Violent only has three examples. Two examine how the trope is actually not real... and the other is just a random serial killer who simply happens to have an extra Y chromosome.

Crowner it as a stereotype trope. The two general examples could be moved to the description.

The description literally does say 'this trope isn't real but check the real life folder for details' as if giving info isn't the description's job, lol.

Yeah, it's a stereotype, let's crowner.

We can't just cut the RL folder?

I mean, objectively speaking it is a stereotype trope and thus should be made officially NRLEP. There's no reason to not crowner it, especially since the serial killer example isn't technically misuse.

Half-Breed Discrimination comes off to me as Too Controversial and/or Gossip and Stereotypes, and many of the real life examples involve really touchy racial subjects and gossip about real people. The Japanese/Korean split and Meghan Markle examples in particular concern me.

I still think We Are Everywhere is a morality trope. FTR the ROCEJ example is the very first one.

How could it be a morality trope if both heroes and villains can do it?

what is that supposed to mean?

What do you mean, what does it mean? A morality trope makes a moral judgement on the character, good or bad, heroic or evil. A trope can't be a morality trope if it doesn't strictly apply to a specific moral alignment.

that dosen't make sense to me. i thought it was for every alignment.

While "both heroes and villains can do it" is an odd way to phrase it, my argument that We Are Everywhere is not a morality trope because it's just Stock Phrases with no inherent moral implications in the first place and anyone can use it.

I mean my point isn't odd phrasing, the description is 4 sentences long and one of those sentences says "also heroes can do this too" so yeah this trope can be done by anyone, hence, it doesn't label someone as good or evil for doing it, so it has no attached morality, so it's not a morality trope.

We disallow RL examples on Morality tropes because applying it to a real person also applies a moral judgment. Take Bald of Evil for example. If we apply that to a real person, we are saying that the baldness shows how evil they are. This would be what is referred to as a dick move, saying that you can tell a real life person is evil by their bald head.

In fiction when a group states We Are Everywhere, it doesn't mean they are the bad guys. It doesn't mean they are the good guys either, it's entirely context dependent. When a real life group says it (and many do), it's not a moral judgment (we can consider them heroic or evil, but that's based on other things).

It's been over a day of discussion, and we have the following (will holler to add):

• Miscarriage of Justice - Too Common and Too Controversial (Added Nov. 5th)
• Missing Episode - Impossible in Real Life, real life does not have episodes to disappear. (Added Nov. 5th).

I think this is what's on the plate currently, not sure if I've missed anything:

• Extra Y, Extra Violent - Consensus seems to lean towards crownering as a Stereotype trope, we've got til the end of day before the 24 hour discussion period is up.
• We Are Everywhere - Seems to leaning towards not crownering, prob should take the stick of cleanup to it.
• Half-Breed Discrimination - Was just brought up, but I would agree it is treading into dicey territory, but would like to see more thoughts on this.