Needs subtropes moved off: Immortality

There's also that Immortality By Rebirth is not necessarily Reincarnation. Growing a new body for the soul that begins as an infant, with or without Body Backup Drive, counts as that trope as currently described.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Created a sandbox page for the proposed supertrope. Help tweaking it is of course appreciated.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

ccoa,

The sandbox looks alright to me. Am I correct in thinking the only step left is launching the Immortality subtrope YKTTWs *

when they are ready

? I am guessing that it would not be necessary to move Immortality's wicks to the relevant subtropes since it is going to be a supertrope/index and would cover them anyway.

edited 18th Jan '12 3:48:39 PM by LouieW

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

If the wicks to Immortality include references to "Type X", then we can't very well leave them as-is with the numbered list on the page deleted, aye? So they'd have to be cleaned up, one way or another.

edited 18th Jan '12 3:51:57 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Yep, the wicks will need cleaned. I volunteer to help out with that (or if necessary do them all).

We'll also need to move all the examples on Immortality to where they belong, assuming they're not already on the subtropes.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Okay, went ahead and swapped the main page with the sandbox page.

The examples are currently on the sandbox page. I'm in the process of sorting them and placing them on the correct pages, or just cutting them if they're duplicates, and deleting them as I go. If anyone wants to help out, feel free.

After the YKTT Ws launch, we can clean wicks.

edited 19th Jan '12 9:53:51 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

So.......are we going to launch the YTTKW or what?

One (The Ageless) has already been launched. The others are waiting on hats/feedback. Feel free to go hat them if you think they're ready and are in a hurry. There's nothing I can do to speed them up.

It's been brought up that Life Drinker and Vampiric Draining (hmm, that trope uses "vampiric" and doesn't seem to attract misuse...) are another "one covers the act, one the character" pair.

Are we agreed that these pairs are different enough to be separate tropes?

edited 27th Jan '12 12:10:50 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Is there a list of the tropes, new or pre-existing, that replace each of the old Immortality types and which they correspond to? That would probably make it easier to sort wicks.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

Um, I usually never go to the YKTTW. How do I give a hat?

EDIT: Never mind, I found it. This is confusing, how come the hat button is on the main YKTTW page but not the separate YKTTW discussion pages?

EDIT: Body Backup Drive is ready for launch.

edited 27th Jan '12 1:15:57 PM by shiro_okami

Type I: Perfect Immortality YKKTW. Most of the examples are already there, unless they were under another subsection.

Type II: The Ageless. Just need to double check they all made it onto the page, and this one is done.

Type III: From a Single Cell and Healing Factor. I believe I moved all of these already.

Type IV: Resurrective Immortality YKTTW, Immortality By Rebirth YKTTW, and Body Backup Drive YKTTW. Most, if not all, of the examples are on those YKTT Ws already, so they just need double checked and deleted.

Type V: The Undead. Already done.

Type VI: Age Without Youth

Type VII: Immortality Talisman YKTTW. Again, they should all be on there.

Type VIII: Immortality Through Legacy

Type IX: Body Surf

Type X: Life Drinker YKTTW. Same as others, they should already be there.

Type XI: Fighting a Shadow

Type XII: Joker Immunity

There's also a bunch of unsorted examples at the bottom that need to be gone through.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

That's very helpful, thank you! But I don't know about that wording on The Ageless. The middle section implies that The Ageless can not have any other type of immortality in addition to not aging, but that isn't born out by examples. I.E., the Greek gods never age but also have the Healing Factor that makes them immune to death by injury.

I'd change the middle section to this:

However, he may be as vulnerable to injury as a normal person, and isn't necessarily immune to death by fatal injuries. That requires some other type of Immortality.

edited 27th Jan '12 3:39:36 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

Rather than changing the description to fit the examples, I think we need to axe the bad examples, which are only there because I was guessing.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

So you think that any character which has two forms of Immortality is a bad example and should be axed from all the new tropes? I don't understand how that would make any sense.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

No, not usually. But this trope is specifically about those that don't have any other form of immortality. The implications of "lives forever, but can still be killed by a bullet", Healing Factor / From a Single Cell, and Perfect Immortality are different for a character.

Besides, just about every example in Healing Factor (and almost every other type of immortality other than Age Without Youth, come to think of it) is going to also have slowed or no aging. There's no reason to duplicate them all here. The examples where that's the only form of immortality will get drowned in the noise, and they're the interesting ones.

EDIT: Body Backup Drive has launched.

edited 30th Jan '12 2:33:48 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Then The Ageless and the other subtropes should mention that other forms of Immortality often also include agelessness, so that's more clear. I had no clue that the other Immortality subtropes were not all intended to be mutually exclusive from now on.

edited 30th Jan '12 6:22:08 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

The Ageless is only really a factor in Perfect Immortality, From a Single Cell / Healing Factor, and possibly Life Drinker. Although neither From a Single Cell nor Healing Factor really mention The Ageless in the trope description, which means that either it needs to be added or that we need a separate Regenerative Immortality trope.

edited 30th Jan '12 7:43:52 PM by shiro_okami

I don't really see a need for another separate subtrope. I'd rather just mention in the relevant subtope descriptions where "double"/mixed examples should go.

edited 30th Jan '12 10:02:37 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

I really can't think of any characters with a Healing Factor that don't have at least slowed aging, so I'd say just add it to the trope description.

The Ageless also frequently overlaps with Immortality Talisman, Immortal Not Invulnerable, and Purpose-Driven Immortality. (all in YKTTW, presently)

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Actually, regenerative type immortality could probably fall under Perfect Immortality, considering that a basic part of that trope is Made of Diamond. Widened to include Nigh-Invulnerable, it would cover not only being incapable of injury but also Healing Factor and Fighting a Shadow. Although, that might make it too broad.

edited 1st Feb '12 7:19:10 PM by shiro_okami

But Healing Factor is somewhat different from being un-injurable. You can be injured, and can even feel pain or be incapacitated for a while, it's just never permanent.

If you stab an impervious guy, your sword bounces off and he punches your face.

If you stab a healing guy, you can chop him up and dump him in the ocean, and then 4 months later he will hunt you down and shoot you.

At least that's the way I see it. I haven't actually read Made of Diamond.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

I know this was a decided-on overhaul of the trope... but can we re-add references to Type I, Type IV, etc. as a deprecated standard that is still referenced in places? It makes a lot of currently existent pages and references to the trope very confusing without it — Apocalypse How retained a listing of the previous types for this reason.

edited 3rd Feb '12 5:26:11 PM by Nezumi

It's better to remove those types. We don't want them on the wiki to begin with. Why should we let them stay? Keeping the types just encourages more of what we want gone.

edited 3rd Feb '12 5:43:03 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

All right, but keep in mind we're going to need to clean up quite a few pages to manage this.

We already know this and already discussed it. We're just waiting on the YKTT Ws to launch so we have the pages available to wick to.

Speaking of, how the heck do you get freaking hats?

edited 12th Feb '12 9:10:15 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.