Statler And Waldorf stingers: Part 2

Incidentally, the quote from above is not at the bottom of Statler And Waldorf any more, at least not in that form.

I tightening up the timing a bit to make it funnier. It's still not much but I think it's at least worth keeping now.

edited 2nd Jan '11 7:34:22 PM by BlackHumor

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

Also, physicists.

Yes, I have, and paying lip service to a trope isn't the same as being about the trope. They're not an example of it. They don't say anything new about it. They're there for the sake of having them.

You seem to know me awfully well.

I've yet to remove any. This is not the kind of thing that gets sorted out by edit warring.

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

No one has said that they're examples of the trope. They're stingers.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I'm just not seeing much validity to any of the grievances here. Statler And Waldorf don't appear on anywhere near a majority of pages on the wiki, they don't appear all that overused, and there's nothing wrong with including a stinger on a page.

The only complaint given that I think has any merit is that some of these stingers just plain suck. Subjectivity aside (and acknowledging that Statler And Waldorf's original zingers from the Muppet universe aren't exactly the best comedy gold out there in the first place), some of these stingers are really bad. In one case, I remember deliberately removing one such stinger from Humans Are Bastards not only because it was dreadfully unfunny but also because whoever put it there clearly had no idea what the trope in question was dealing with.

However, I do believe that the truly awful ones on this index are in a small minority.

EDIT: This was also primarily a Just for Fun page before becoming listed now as a full-blown index. What happened to the Just for Fun banner at the top of this page, and why did we get rid of it?

edited 3rd Jan '11 12:03:47 PM by SeanMurrayI

Fo' reference, Sean Murray is talking about this:

Uh yeah, wow.

Actually, that is better than some of them.

Oh... I rest my case then.

As you have repeatedly failed to see, and as Madrugada has pointed out, they aren't examples of the trope. They don't need to be. You see compares and contrasts, as well as indexes and headlines, in trope pages. Are they examples of the trope? Are they to be removed because they are not?

Oh god that one was horrible. We should by all means either remove or fix the shitty ones. And before "who gets to decide", well for some of these cases it is just common sense that they have to be removed, like the example discussed. If only because it is completely misused...

edited 3rd Jan '11 12:14:01 PM by SilentReverence

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?

Well, if that one is bad, a few of them are downright horiable.

So fix 'em.

What's precedent ever done for us?

No. Whether something should be on a page depends on the benefits and the downsides of putting it there. Being an example of the trope is one upside. Explaining the trope in some way is another. Illustrating it by comparison or contrast is another. If something is truly sanctioned by the Rule of Cool or Rule of Funny, that's good too. Indexes? We're really drawing that comparison?

As I see it these stingers just lack any redeeming feature from the list above, and whatever benefits they arguably have are outweighed by their downsides. They take up space where we could put something actually clever. The majority of them induce groaning. They rely on the reader being positively receptive to a fandom-specific in-joke to work. Someone not "down" with the gig may end up getting the impression we're that sort of site. You know, the kind where you're forced to go native in the regulars' private world of associations before you're allowed to enjoy anything. Nobody likes that sort of site.

edited 3rd Jan '11 8:02:31 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

^Nobody needs to read the stinger to get the trope. They're a bonus. It's like page quotes, except less common.

And have you noticed that you're arguing against everyone else in the thread? Because I think I would take that as an indication you're not going to win this argument.

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

TV Tropes has ALWAYS been "that" type of site, and comitting genocide on a singular meme is going to do nothing to stop it. Arguably, all of the worst tragedies that have befallen this wiki were the result of people trying to make it more accessible and encylopedic.

I'm feeling strangely happy now, contented and serene. Oh don't you see, finally I'll be, somewhere that's green...

We have had Tragedies? I mean beside The Great Crash and The Situation, neither of which have the above cause.

edited 3rd Jan '11 5:47:54 PM by Ghilz

The constant renames.

I'm feeling strangely happy now, contented and serene. Oh don't you see, finally I'll be, somewhere that's green...

I would say we've gotten a lot of bad trope names because of trying too hard to be clear, but it's never caused an actual tragedy. Mostly it's been good for the wiki, more-or-less.

EDIT: But this post should not be taken as an excuse to go even further from the topic than we already are. Back to Statler and Waldorf, please.

edited 3rd Jan '11 6:08:03 PM by BlackHumor

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

If any of the Statler And Waldorf stingers are actually worse than what was once on Humans Are Bastards, then we should get rid of them before they actually hurt someone reading them (or, at least, make note of which pages are among the worst entries on this index and see if any of them can be salvaged with a few tweaks).

A few that look like they can use some sort of tending to:

• TV Tropes Wiki Drinking Game (nothing entirely wrong with Statler And Waldorf page; this one just has A LOT of stingers)
• Zipperiffic (It's more of a comment about one's Author Appeal, rather than the trope as a whole; the first line of the stinger could probably just use a small tweak)
• Brown Note (Like Zipperiffic above it, this one is only dealing with a specific example on the page)
• Self-Demonstrating Article (I don't get it)
• Russian Humor (Well this isn't the only page on the index with the stinger in a language that isn't English, but at least that page has English footnotes)

There's probably some others as well. If anyone wants to call any attention to them, I guess now is as good a time as any to bring them up.

edited 3rd Jan '11 6:48:38 PM by SeanMurrayI

I just tweaked Brown Note. The first line was too long for the rhythm. And the One on Self-Demonstrating article can go. It's not only not funny, it also doesn't even make sense.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

How's about we at least put the stingers in Spoiler tags so that people who are not interested in the meme dont have it staring them in the face if they want to read the whole page. this way a person will only see it if he is interested.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

Why? We don't put page quotes in spoiler tags, and I've seen some pretty bad ones.

We don't need to tiptoe around in horror of "Oh noes, somebody on the wiki might see a bad joke!"

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

true, but the page quotes at least have something to do with the trope itself.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

Well, I'm an optimistic fellow.

edited 3rd Jan '11 8:03:37 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

Eh, they're relatively inoffensive and some people like them. If it's a terrible joke, you can delete that one. *shrug*

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I hate them too; I just haven't joined in 'til now.

Anyway, they're unnecessary, unfunny, and make the assumption that the majority of readers actually care about Statler And Waldorf.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

I think they're funny. Maybe because I grew up with the characters. Anyway, they're on so few pages that I don;t see what harm they do even if some people don't get the joke.

they are on enough pages that it annoys people (myself included)

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also