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Headscratchers / Turnabout Storm

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Given the nature of this subpage's entries, all spoilers regarding Turnabout Storm won't be marked, but spoilers specific to Ace Attorney and MLP: Friendship is Magic will.

  • In Part 3 - Twilight, the Judge mentions that the members of the jury have been sworn to secrecy regarding the details of the trial. Uhhh... what jury? -Blaz Torch 314
  • exactly did Phoenix present that piece of evidence near the end of Part 3 when he confronted Sonata, despite having been knocked out and robbed of his evidence earlier?
    • Word of God confirmed this is one of the deliberate "plot holes" that will be explained in Part 3 - Twilight. —El bruno
      • And indeed it is. Twilight discovers that Cruise Control knocked Phoenix out and stole his evidence, so she's able to retrieve it for Phoenix. —Berserk Saturn
  • So… they do realize they could be sending one of the holders of the Elements of Harmony into the Sun, right? Y'know, those same Elements where, if they lost their powers when separate, a single argument near his space would free a Reality Warper and have him screw up all of Equestria? Or how about when an evil emerges and the Elements are needed? —Psyga 315
    • This is plain Epileptic Trees, but there's the possibility that in the case Rainbow was found guilty, Celestia would claim that she was sent to the Sun, but in reality she'll give her a regular non-stelar exile in order to call her back in a time of need. Murder is a serious crime and the citizens would demand a punishment of the guilty party, but Celestia should know better than to destroy a cornerstone of Equestria's most powerful defense against evil. Either that or she knows that acquitting Rainbow and finding the real culprit is but a Foregone Conclusion once Phoenix takes the case. —El bruno
    • Celestia and Luna have previously been bearers of the elements, and lost control of them. Perhaps if they send Rainbow Dash to the sun, they could get a new bearer. —D Carrier
      • That's a problem. Making a new friend and generating the same bond they had with Rainbow Dash and making sure they qualify for the Element of Loyalty is close to impossible, barring certain exceptions. —Psyga 315
      • Which presents a new problem, they need the Elements to actually banish someone. Because they possess it now, The Mane Six could easily refuse, especially since they would need the very person they're banishing to use her element. —Dallenson
      • They need the elements to banish a goddess. It may be easier to banish a mortal. —D Carrier
      • The Mane Six severed Celestia's connection by replacing her as Elements of Harmony. With one absent, Celestia would be able to take up the element for herself again, all six should she need to. But Equestria cannot abide murderers, making Rainbow Dash expendable. Further, reclaiming the Element of Loyalty out of a duty to protect Equestria alongside the Mane Six would make Celestia qualify as a bearer as well. —cdcdrr
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    • This story seems to be set before season two, so the Equestrian government probably doesn't realize that any threats that require the Elements still exist. After all, Celestia herself was unaware that Discord could escape. —Sjogre
      • So far, we have seen two alicorn goddesses, one draconequus, and one changeling queen. One of these was a danger at the time. The other three could become a danger at any moment. They may not have predicted that Discord would escape, but anypony could predict that he might. There are also most likely many more such beings known to Celestia but not to us. There are also most likely many more not known to Celestia, which is a fact that should be obvious to her. —D Carrier
      • Celestia has never been considered a threat, Luna was reformed, Discord was sealed in stone, and Queen Chrysalis was unknown, as well as ulimately defeated without the Elements. What threat was known to be at large, and why would anyone think that there were any threats that needed the Elements to be faced on the horizon? After all, with both Celestia and Luna around, the Elements of Harmony, which hadn't been necessary for a thousand years, would seem less essential than ever. —Sjogre
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    • Since they're saying "banish", they're likely doing it in a manner that wouldn't kill Dash. As such, they could temporarily unbanish her. It would be a risky move, since Dash would be less likely to help them after that, but then again, so is setting the precedent that the bearers of harmony are above the law. —D Carrier
  • Wait, so a pony can survive a flower pot, an anvil, a cart of hay, and a freaking piano dropped onto them (with additional injuries beforehand), Yet a single bolt of lightning will do them in instantly? (This was mentioned when Twilight talked with Derpy/Ditzy/???, referencing Feeling Pinkie Keen). Even worse is that the mail-mare had shocked herself with a lightning cloud and only suffered an Ash Face.
    This adds even more mystery onto how exactly Ace was killed. The improbability of being hit in the vulnerable part of a lightning proof suit, AND, being killed by it is huge. —Dallenson
    • There is a big difference between blunt force and lightning. Perhaps ponies are better equipped to deal with the former, and worse equipped to deal with the latter. As to why Derpy isn't dead, perhaps it was just a much weaker bolt. —D Carrier
    • Rainbow Dash states in part 3 the cloud she brought was very large and admits it may have been a bit too dangerous to use. —Coldheartedcontender
    • Finally, there's the fact that the cloud striking him was only the cherry on the top. He had already been hit with a burning blunt object and struck with very overloaded artificial lightning beforehand, leaving him uncouncious. Athlete or not, any beating like that is bound to leave him even more vulnerable to the already dangerous real lightning strike. —El bruno
    • I always attributed it to the fact that he was electrocuted from the inside out and because he had a conductor in his mouth, which would serve as an amplifier since saliva is liquid. It fried his brain and everything else because it had direct contact and a conductor to do so. As far as I can recall, every other instance of a pony being electrocuted featured a surface strike. -Technicolourtardis
  • How can ponies compete for second place? Anypony that's faster than Ace Swift can get as close to second as they want. Is it just a game of chicken? See who's willing to cut it the closest and get the biggest risk of Ace doing whatever he was blackmailing them with? They make it sound more like a race, though. —D Carrier
    • A common tactic in a challenge run like this is to lolligag and let the person in front build up an huge lead - and then dash like mad as soon as they get far enough ahead. Usually the goal is to overtake the lead person, but here they could wait until he's close to the finish line. —Artful
      • They'd have to all agree on where to sprint from, which would make the whole thing really obvious to anypony watching. —D Carrier
      • Not really, they'd just have to stick together in a pack and let the pack fall behind. The only thing there is to compare with is each other, so their delaying wouldn't be too obvious. —Artful
  • Phoenix is a lawyer. He knew better than to break-and-enter into the victim's hotel room, but did it anyway. Why didn't he go find Judge, and ask for a warrant to search the hotel room, and thus avoid all of the unpleasantness with Sonata? If he had a warrant, he wouldn't be in the bind he is currently. And I'm asking for an actual reason, not just Rule of Drama. —Leo Archon
    • I see 4 "reasonable" reasons why he didn't do it: 1) With all that happened, he's become desperate for a new lead in the case, thus clouding his better judgement. 2) He has done this kind of thing before, and taking into account that he had no reason to assume there was someone else living there at the moment... 3) The Judge doesn't tend to be very cooperative with him, so he assumes it would be a waste of time. 4) Good old Idiot Ball at work again. —El bruno
    • Possibility 5): The way things were going, it's entirely probable the warrant or process of searching would have to go straight through Trixie. Who might actually do it, and do a good job of handling Sonata - if she had any reason whatsoever to. —DanaO
      • And even then, considering how petty Trixie is, she might brush off anything that might actually help clear Dash's name. —Psyga315
  • In the fourth part, I was nearly ripping my hair out due to nobody pointing this out, and I don't know why nobody noticed it. The "stick", AKA Pinkie's golf club, is metal. Metal attracts lightning. The club was noticeably ruined, as if struck by lightning. The club was right next to Ace's body before Gilda moved the body and Sonata moved the club. Why did nobody point out the possibility of the club having attracted the lightning to Ace (or away from him, possibly)? —Missingno 45
    • Only 4 people came into close contact with that stick, and of those four, only 2 had physical contact. The former 2, Gilda and Twilight, didn't handle it directly (left it alone and most likely used Telekinesis, respectively) and the latter 2, Sonata and Phoenix could tell what it was immediately (Sonata most likely saw it pre-charring and was seen holding it in her teeth, and even charred to a crisp, Metal feels different from Wood, something only a human hand could differentiate. Besides, when something isn't mentioned off the bat that usually means that Phoenix will use it as an Ace-in-the-hole later down the line. —Dark Scythe Queen
    • Pointing that fact out would work against Phoenix at first. Nothing would stop Trixie from using it against him by saying that Rainbow used it to make sure the lightning bolt hit Ace, especially considering that (apparently) the second bolt was a "dud", thus leaving a freak accident out of the question. Until he can confirm that there was in fact another pony in the crime scene, and that there also was another bolt (or that the second bolt did come out of the cloud somehow), the stick remains a random piece of trash at best and another evidence against Rainbow at worst. —El bruno
    • I kind of see where the OP was going with this, but I agree with the above point. Phoenix isn't going to bring it up because it'll be used against him, and Trixie isn't going to bring it up because she has the upper hand/hoof and feels that she doesn't need to. —R.L. Yoshi
    • Part 5: It is revealed that the golf club did attract the lightning to Ace. While he was holding it in his mouth, about to chase after Sonata. —katzsoa
  • Am I seriously the only one who thought the Fission Mailed sequence to be ridiculously forced? Seriously, Trixie has no evidence to back up her claim that the bolt knocked Ace's body several feet, or that there was no second bolt, and yet the Judge instantly believes her completely and flatout refuses to let either Phoenix or Twilight contest her claims. The whole thing just came off as a forced Diabolus ex Machina. —Some New Guy
    • The thing is, while it may seem as such at first, her claim of the first bolt launching Ace made more logical sense than him getting hit by a bolt of lightning nopony else saw or heard. After all, with the lightning-proof suit on, Ace would have been nigh-invulnerable to lightning in the air. Plus, it wasn't that the Judge refused to allow Twilight or Phoenix to contest this claim, it's that they couldn't prove that it wasn't true. And "evidence is everything in court", as our good friends the prosecutors are fond of reminding Phoenix. —Leo Archon
    • There was an electrocuted pony found several feet away from a lightning strike. That's pretty powerful evidence that they were struck by lightning and jumped. The only alternatives to this theory are far less likely. While it's well known that electricity causes muscles to spasm, there is no obvious other way the pony could have been electrocuted. Additional details make the probability go down significantly. —D Carrier
    • Also, this is the Ace Attorney series. In the setting (and you could argue the real life environment it's based off) it's "guilty until proven innocent" than it is the other way around. —Psyga 315
  • When Phoenix is trying to convince the Judge to allow Fluttershy's emergency testimony despite the verdict already being declared, why didn't he bring up The DL-6 case, where the exact same scenario happened?Some New Guy
    • Well, he managed to do it without using it. Chances are he would have brought up that fact should the judge have been less cooperative. Futhermore, he was at the heat of the moment; it's understandable he would try to appeal to the judge's good nature before his more rational side kicked in. And as a final, more meta motive: Not mentioning that avoids spoilers for those who haven't played Ace Attorney. —El bruno
  • While it's not a real criticism, it seems to me that Phoenix missed an obvious shot cross-examining Gilda. Under the common practice that "the exception proves the rule" (meaning that adding exceptions to or restricting the role of a ruling has the effect of strengthening it whenever it does apply) Trixie's supposedly-glib response that "Gilda was observing the crime" after limiting the domain of the questioning could be taken as a literal admission by Gilda that she specifically came to the scene to observe an anticipated crime, at least for the purposes of greatly expanding the domain of questioning Phoenix can continue with. As I can't see a way for her to trap that follow-up, it almost felt like a deliberate gift from Trixie. Which could have been intentional, I suppose. She clearly wants this to drag out as long as it's on her terms. —DanaO
  • We never do find out what secret Trixie hides behind the black psyche-locks. Twilight surmised that if she tried, it could crush Trixie to admit it. She gets Phoenix to ask the question, but he sees nothing, even after Trixie blames it on the Ursa Minor again. —grif
    • This is handled either subtly or clumsily, depending on how you want to look at it, but Trixie's post-trial remarks to Phoenix suggest that she is doing some pretty serious projecting of her own failures as a magician onto Twilight, and is envious of the latter's success. She's a performance artist desperately seeking approval for her work, one whom Sonata describes as being deeply insecure, and she freely admits that her experience with the law was "just another occupation" her parents pushed her into while she was growing up in Canterlot. (Word of Faust also says Trixie, like Twilight, was a student at Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns, which may be taken into account here.) The fact that she doesn't even charge admission for her shows, and smiles at the prospect of performing even in front of an audience made up of her enemies, suggests that she has a real, genuine passion for her art, but is intensely bitter because she gets heckled for her efforts; Twilight, on the other hand, is the Golden Child, personal student of Princess Celestia, loved and admired for doing essentially the same work. That she is able to open up to Phoenix with at least this much may be what prevents him from seeing the psyche-locks when he asks her about it. —nospamthx
      • So what you're suggesting is that he didn't see any psyche-locks, not because she wasn't lying, but because it wasn't a secret kept deep in her heart anymore—that, having told Phoenix in a rather obvious way, reflexively lying about it doesn't make a difference because she knows he knows how she really feels. That about right? —grif
      • More or less. She effectively blurted out her "dark secret" in front of him, though she may not have intended to do so, and indeed, might not realize just how much information she has given away. Phoenix, however, is pretty intuitive about these things, which is probably why he expresses an interest in Trixie's magic act immediately afterward. Trixie's still lying about the reason for her vendetta against Twilight, but because Phoenix already knows the truth, it doesn't really matter. —nospamthx
      • In addition to the above, whether this was NeoArtimus' intention or not, this does allow the story to fit in the Ace Attorney canon since, by not seeing Trixie's black psyche-locks, it allows Kristoph to still be the first person he encountered to have black psyche-locks.b—Ako Si Kuya 23
  • It seems to me that Rainbow Dash IS guilty, but of manslaughter (ponyslaughter?), not murder. After all, the cloud she brought to the crime scene and knowingly set off did end up killing Swift, albeit after she left. Had she not done that, it's highly likely he would be alive. It would be the same as someone bringing firecrackers to a prank and setting them off, only for one to be delayed in going off only to explode under someone, killing them. The intention isn't relevant if the result is death. —Cuchulain Setanta
    • Not really. He was killed as he was in the process of trying to kill another pony, the actual reason why he died involved him picking up an object she had no knowledge was even present, and unlike the firecracker example his death was entirely his own fault. Had he done nothing at all the cloud would have still gone off but missed him. The only reason he was hit was because he was carrying the golf club which acted as a lightning rod. It would be like someone bringing firecrackers as a joke, one of them not going off, and the victim taking a blunt object and hitting the cracker with it. Plus by this point he had been hit very hard with a golf club to the head and shocked once with a very powerful bolt of electricity, plus was holding a lightning rod in his mouth which would give the lighting a clear path to his insides. He might have survived a hit from the cloud under normal circumstances, but not combined with all of those factors. —Shaoken
      • Not to mention that he was completely bugfuck insane by this point, so he was too obsessed with murdering Sonata and "preserving his reputation" that he didn't notice the cloud was still active until it was too late. —Some New Guy
    • There is some room for interpretation in the law, to preserve the spirit of justice. You could possibly have a case against Rainbow Dash... but who really cares to argue that at the end? It says a lot for Ace Swift that not one pony really believes what happened was unjustified, and considering that the Judge has no reason to waste valuable time pursuing blame for what was clearly an accident at best. —Philweasel
    • Even if anyone had bothered to pursue a case against Rainbow Dash under these circumstances, since when is Involuntary Manslaughter commited in cases where you were not commiting a crime considered a crime you have to go to jail for? in fact, since when was Involuntary Manslaughter commited in cases where you weren't commiting a crime considered a crime at all? The way I see it, the most she would be charged with is stealing the cloud.
      • Technically, she stole the cloud with the intent to intimidate the guy.
      • True, still, she had no way of knowing he would stick around in the forrest afterward. Also, as stated, the lightning probably would not have harmed him if he hadn't been carrying that golf club in his mouth. And why WAS he carrying it in his mouth? Oh, that's right, he was trying to MURDER someone with it. If Rainbow had not have left that cloud there, Sonata might have been killed. Last I checked, if someone dies commiting a crime, the only one at fault, is themselves. By stealing the cloud and leaving it behind, Rainbow inadvertently saved Sonata's life. What since is there in punishing her for that? Still, one has to wonder why she was not charged with stealing the cloud, which is another case altogether.
  • About The Stinger... If Celestia used a spell to summon the best defense attorney in the universe, couldn't she have potentially summoned Gregory Edgeworth instead of Mia?—Ako Si Kuya 23
    • Greg's already dead, too. Manfred Von Karma killed him in DL-6.Mugen Kagemaru
    • That was the Ako's point, that since the spell could summon the dead, why not summon Gregory's spirit instead of Mia's? In that instance, it would be because Mia is the best defence attorney (probably for stoping Dahlia).Shaoken
      • I kinda felt that his professionalism and being able to deliver a crippling blow to von Karma despite losing would be enough to make him the better defense attorney, but I think you're right. Mia has actually beaten Dahlia, eventually even after their deaths. Plus, it could be the fact that Ace Attorney Investigations 2 hasn't left Japan and NeoArtimus hasn't really followed info regarding that game. —Ako Si Kuya 23
      • We're not entirely sure if the spell was cast using the specific words of "Greatest Defense Attorney". For all we knew, Princess Celestia tailored her spell, too. My guess is that there were a bunch of other criteria apart from "Exemplary Legal Prowess" and "Dogged Pursuit For Justice and Truth despite odds", in particular "Willing to Accept Supernatual Phenomena". Just judging from Miles' personality, Greg was probably an Agent Scully who would think Dash's case of being too "out there" to take. So the spell took the next DA in line (i.e. Mia). Even then however, Greg would have the same problem as Mia in that he was, in Dahlia's words, Permanently Retired. -Dark Scythe Queen
      • Here's another possibility: the matter that, as skilled as he was, Gregory could not beat Manfred Von Karma in court. Phoenix did, though. And if we work off the idea that Mia's a better attorney than Phoenix and uses identical techniques, it's logical to guess that she could've beaten Karma had she ever gone against him. She possibly IS a better defense attorney than Gregory. -Cybersbe
  • Why doesn't Phoenix accept the 70,000 bits for his work? Even if it's not Earth currency, it's still gold; he could sell it to a dealer or at the very least melt it down! —Jen Burdoo
    • Who says that bits are made of gold? Also, even if they were, I see Phoenix as the type to not think of that option until it's too late. —Echo Garrote
    • It doesn't matter what they're made of. He could have went on a spending spree in Equestria, either taking a trip to an exotic location before he left, or just buying stuff that he could then take back with him. For that matter, he could have used it to buy gold and took that gold back with him. —Blayze Bright
    • Because, in Ace Attorney canon, he spends the next seven years entertaining patrons at a bar just to support himself and Trucy. Phoenix suddenly gaining a load of gold just before being disbarred would contradict canon, so he needs to miss out on the reward.
  • This is a meta headscratcher, but why is it that when Phoenix points out the contradiction on the time in Apple Bloom's testimony, it's Apollo's Objection theme that plays?
    • Because A) it was Apollo's cross-examination music playing, and B) the videos use music from across all the AA games. For example, each of the different witnesses has a different cross-examination music, and Rainbow has Guilty Love (the Gavinners' theme) when Phoenix speaks to her at the detention center.
  • Why wasn't Rainbow charged with stealing the cloud or fired from her job?
    • The theft of the cloud was a separate crime from the murder. If Rainbow was to be charged for that, the trial would most likely have taken place after Phoenix left, with an Equestrian lawyer, an Equestrian prosecutor, and an Equestrian judge.
      • The theft of a single cloud wasn't anywhere near as big of a concern to anyone as the ongoing murder investigation/trial. By the time that's over it's entirely possible that the weather service will have either forgotten about it, or be willing to let Rainbow off with something relatively light like docking her pay.
  • Am I the only one who was super surprised that Cruise Control wasn't the killer? Was he supposed to be a red herring because it was too obvious? It seemed like he had the motive, the means, and the shock value that would have made him a great guilty party. Then again, I haven't rewatched Turnabout Storm since the final episode came out, so it's possible I'm forgetting that he had an alibi or something. -P. 5000
  • How is Sonata's blackmail against Phoenix effective at all? She has no actual evidence that Phoenix entered her room beyond her word, since any fingerprint or DNA evidence he left on the scene or on the evidence would be invalidated by the fact that she voluntarily let him in afterwards. Phoenix, meanwhile, has proof she was conducting a blackmail operation. If he goes to the police, it's his word against that of a proven criminal.
    • Couple of things. For one, Phoenix was with Pinkie Pie (who would also have been charged) and Pinkie has already demonstrated a tendency to say the wrong thing, and since she would definitely be questioned she would wind up supporting Sonata's account (whether she meant to or not). Secondly, Phoenix is a stranger in this world. He just got chewed out for not knowing that pegasi control the weather... for all he knows, this is a difference too. But mostly it was just like Sonata said: he was afraid of failing Rainbow Dash and that caused him to not see the obvious hole in Sonata's plan.

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