The Guyver review by Sage was all about how he'd got far worse, Lindsay actually called Doug's "it's just a character" excuse for Sailor Moon gaslighting, Rachel called Critic out in The Shining for never being nice to them, Critic's called himself out for being more of a coward (plus hiding behind a child, after you've hit her no less, that's not kind or brave), he's stated in several episodes that he cares about no opinion of his own and he's become such a Fan Hater that he's willing to kill people who like Adam Sandler. There's Alternate Character Interpretation and there's ignoring a plot.
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Well at least you took this to discussion rather than just deleting it, so thanks for that.
Anyway, could I get a link to Lindsay calling Doug out? I'd like to see that.
Second you make good points, but I think I can counter most of them:
- Rachel called Critic out in The Shining for never being nice to them
- Except I can remember a time when he WAS nice to her. Wishing her happy birthday in The Master of Disguise review after she threatened him with physical violence. Now, one could make the point that he forgot her birthday in the first place, but that still doesn't justify trying to shoot him. In fact, he really didn't owe her ANYTHING at that point and could easily have fired her right then and there but instead he actually spoke some kind words to her, showing what to me seems like a great amount of compassion.
- Critic's called himself out for being more of a coward (plus hiding behind a child, after you've hit her no less, that's not kind or brave
- First, Critic has always had wonky opinions of himself, and his statements about his own qualities should be taken with a grain of salt as one would with any Unreliable Narrator. Second, you do realise that the child he was hiding behind was LITERALLY the spawn of Satan and likely far more powerful than any human being on Earth? Yeah, I wouldn't stand infront of her either. Third, as I said, he's demonstrated bravery on other occasions as well. Both times standing up to deranged individuals in defense of OTHER PEOPLE. First when the Catwomen threatened him if he didn't rag on Halle Bery, he stood up to them and defended her. Second, when Zod threatened to murder him if he said a single good thing about the Man Of Steel fanbase, he stood up and actually praised them despite hating the movie. Are you noticing a pattern here? Whenever Critic himself is threatened, he acts a coward. But whenever someone ELSE needs defending, he's suddenly much more courageous. Now as to the point of him not being kind, I again refer you back to all the Heartwarming Moments he's had since his return. I should also point out that he's been getting these moments every episode since his return, whereas before his return it would be about once every ten episodes.
- He's stated in several episodes that he cares about no opinion of his own.
- Sorry, could you repeat that? I think you might have made a small typo, unless you're seriously suggesting that the Critic doesn't care about his own opinion.
- He's become such a Fan Hater that he's willing to kill people who like Adam Sandler.
- True. And I'll acknowledge that scene as an example of Dispraportionate Retribution and a really dickish thing to do. But once again, I'll refer you back to the end of his Man Of Steel review where he praised the Man Of Steel fandom despite hating the movie and the fact that doing so risked himself getting murdered by Zod which kind of goes against the whole Fan Hater thing. There's also the words of acceptence he spoke about the Power Rangers fandom.
Ironically, you seem to be doing the exact same thing you've accused me of doing. Taking only the evidence that suits your argument and then blatantly ignoring anything that contradicts it. To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, you're
"Twisting facts to suit the theories, rather than the theories to suit the facts."
May I ask how is it twisting facts to suit theories when there's been whole episodes demonstrating that he's got worse? You can't say Rachel is wrong when he's threatening her (and beat the shit out of her in Master Of Disguise even) and when Sage says that he's got worse as a Fan Hater and the ending is a downer, you can't say that the creator (to borrow from TBF cos I can't think of proper meaning) isn't trying to show him as wrong.
Also, Turbo commentary had Doug say that Power Rangers fans had low I Qs, Man Of Steel commentary had him apologize for not giving Joe enough to say. Evilina has very little agency of her own, again with Man Of Steel he explained to Joe why JOE liked it, he was condescending to the catwomen (also the review where he decided that he was a sexist)
And on the subject of heartwarming, there's also a fuckload of Nightmare Fuel entries.
As for Chick, the gaslighting comment was on a terrible post but see the one where she called it a failure
. And if you have time, some glorious calling out here.
It's twisting facts to suit theories because your choosing to ignore anything that contradicts your interpretation.
Now then, as for him threatening Rachel, as well as other stuff like his Freak Out in Master Of Disguise, he was clearly out of his mind during those times. He wasn't in control of himself and cannot be held accountable for his actions.
Second, in regards to your points concerning Sailor Mooon Power Rangers and Man Of Steel, those were all DOUG'S screw-ups. And as Doug Walker has often said, he is not the Nostalgia Critic. Therefore his mistakes can not be placed on the Critic.
Also, in regards to him hitting Evillina. As stated, the girl is the spawn of satan so clearly an Enfante Terrible. And as we all know, Enfante Terrible's use the appearance of childlike innocence to lure their victim into a false sense of security. So Critic refusing to put up with her bullshit seemed more like him being Genre Savvy to me.
As for beating the shit out of Rachel, she threatened him with physical violence. She deserved it. And I know someone is going to call me a woman-basher for saying that. But NO, it doesn't matter what your gender is, you threaten to hurt someone, you better be prepared for them to retaliate.
Also, I'm afraid I don't have twelve hours to watch the Charity Drive. Do you know of a better place to find the calling out? Because I'd love to see it.
Just weighing in because ew, Evilina cried and was still red-faced when he told her to shut up. That is some impressive skills on her part (which we haven't seen) if she's "luring him in".
Being upset over retaliation doesn't stop someone from being evil. If a Smug Snake breaks down crying after being curbstomped, does that mean he's not a villain? You two really seem to be putting Evillina in Leather Pants. Remember, she's the spawn of the devil. She's not human, she's a creature of pure evil.
On an unrelated note, while I do believe The Critics personality is becoming nicer, I also think his mental faculties are much more unstable and we should probably add Sanity Slippage to his folder.
She just slapped him lightly on the arm and he hit her on the back of the head. Saying that might be the wrong thing for him to do is not leather pantsing her. She's portrayed as stupid, too stupid to be as evil as you're calling her.
Hmmm... point. Though I still wouldn't trust her. Better to nip the problem in the bud before she gets her claws in.
Okay, I think I can respond to this without abuse memories of that sentiment clouding anything. Okay. Doug is still writing this. He's the guy that called children getting hurt the worst sound he could think of. If he went from that to 'yes you're meant to be on Critic's side when he makes a girl cry' that's a big change.
Except she's NOT a child. She's a demon that that just happens to LOOK like a child.
Everyone treats her like a child, and she constantly acted like one. As much as I was squicked by the cutesiness, there was no evidence to suggest it wasn't genuine. Either that or she's got an Ambiguous Disorder.
Let's see. You can't really say he's getting nicer and then have the excuse of "he's out of his mind and can't be held accountable" when he's psychotic. Take it from someone with depression, if I lose my mind I want people to tell me so I can apologize.
A few of Lindsay's call-out of Doug are here if you want.
You say Doug's mistakes can't be put on the Critic, but Critic is still the mouthpiece for Doug's exaggerated opinion. He's the one calling pedophilia kinky, or being gross about TMZ fans, or having a whole bit dedicated to calling a child actress "barbie doll like". Not even going to try to pull the Demo Reel card, but in To Boldly Flee he didn't want to have a negative impact on anyone. Even Malcolm said they're pretty awful to celebrities now.
As for Rachel. There's a power dynamic. She can't actually hurt him (we won't go into how stupid the Literal-Minded joke was), but he can and has hurt her. The Shining commentary has RL!Rachel say she was genuinely scared of Doug, Doug is never going to say he feels like he's in danger from her or Tamara, if that makes sense?
Strange Girl isn't a trope anymore it's a disambigution page. I'm moving this here so some else more familiar with is work can sort out which tropes under Strange Girl this fits into.
- Strange Boy: He'd still be pretty bizarre even if you took away all the self-confidence issues, the flightiness and the temper tantrums. People in crossovers didn't notice until pretty late on.
How is becoming preachy an Aesop Amnesia of valuing other opinions?
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Because that makes it look like he thinks his opinion is the only correct one. Plus it was even lampshaded in Bridge To Terabithia: "Well, I'm not one to disagree with other people's opinions... unless they're stupid and not mine."
That's nothing new with the Critic, he's always telling people his opinions are better. Even leading up to TBF, there's Temple of Doom, Signs, The Grinch. Signs flat has him say "I know some people like this movie, but you don't know anything".
As well, preaching does not equate directly to acting like your opinions are better. If anything, I'd say that being preachy shows that the Critic actually has a well-thoughtout and constructive opinion, as opposed to the old days when he would just snap at people "you're wrong" and go off on movies declaring they suck and are ungodly abominations.
But The Grinch's Ignored Epiphany was seen as a bad thing, he learned his lesson at the end of Temple Of Doom, TBF had that big rant about how he was a horrible critic, and Doug stated in one of the tributes that Signs was only saved by the Alien conversation and he was doing a lot more analyzing than riffing.
And by preaching I mean condescending. Like to the Catwomen punning they had crabs, or the numerous speeches to straw villains that get mocked now, or the editorials where he just doesn't say anything new.
Also, he has changed for the worst. That was the entire point of The Guyver review with Sage and The Shining with Rachel telling him he's never been nice while she's known him.
But I'll change it to the quote above, more concise.
Edited by 81.100.41.21
oh, I don't question the Critic is worse since his return (though the hate on this site gets a bit heavy), but acting like he knows better than other people was always part of his gimmick.
The editorials are often lazy at times, yes, but they're not really a part of the Critic I think, more Doug dressed as the Critic. For sure they're usually pure analysis and not very funny, but that's the point of them out-of-universe, they're quick and simple to do and give us something to watch to tide us over until the next actual review.
That's why I changed it to what's been lampshaded instead of just an generic episode list, should be more acceptable. :)
I changed the Took a Level in Jerkass/Sanity Slippage to a less contradictory entry. Saying he was ever kinder in the reboot seems to be going against what the rest of the passage was trying to say, and as shown in the edit, he's been creepy and abusive for a lot longer than "Master Of Disguise". His cowardice has been lampshaded twice, he was perfectly lucid in Maven's Monster Mash review when he said he beat a child to death (so any complaints about bad parenting are null and void now, bleh) and even he's said he's needlessly mean in reviewing now.