.....
I have a suggestion. Look at these Character pages of Dissidia Final Fantasy.
They look really arranged good, and separating tropes between story-related, general stuffs, etc.
What says you that we give the Blaz Blue character pages similar treatment? Or do we not have enough tropes per characters to warrant such?
It seems every playable character gets a "Badass" tag in some shape or form, as if to oversaturation. Maybe we should rule it out and start using the subcategories instead? What do you guys think?
Anyone else in favor of getting rid of the captions for the character pics? 90% of them are either drooling over how sexy the characters are, memes, or noting that the pictured character looks like a different character from an unrelated work. Pretty annoying.
Edited by FawfulCrump Hide / Show Replies
Nothing says it's wrong. I say they stay, but the drooling can go. Think of something else to fit in the caption. Suggestion?
The drooling also needs to go off from the descriptions outside captions. It gets annoying as well.
Edited by ChrisX
I may be nitpicking a little, but Tager is listed as Difficult, but Awesome and a Skill Gate Character at the same time. Consensus?
Edited by Et3rnalLegend64
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Um, this is just me, but... why does this page (or this very wiki) act as if Makoto stole EVERY of Litchi's thunders and her section seems to diss Litchi out (especially about Breasts and Stripperiffic)? People butthurt at Litchi's Face–Heel Turn and decided to use Makoto to strike against her? Come on, let's not ignite some flames here...
Just like the Mu and DAT ASS deal, I guess.
Edited by ChrisX
Given the visual novel and multiple path nature of this game, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to create a section for, or at least label out, any tropes that happens or applies to each character's gag reel. Some tropes don't appear directly in each character's gag reel, but appear as they show up in someone else's.
Where exactly did these character titles come from? "The Incarnated Power of the Black Beast", "The Elegant Knight of Order" and the like.
Are these simply made up, or are they actually official? Because if it's the former, shouldn't they be taken down again? I'm not sure if fanon like that should be listed here...
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Red Moon Algesco made them up. On that note, why didn't he make any for Carl or any of the DLC characters? Does he have some kind of hatred for them or something?
In that case, should we remove them again? They're a little misleading, and I'm not sure fanon like that ought to be on this page.
...Though on the note of characters missing titles, Lambda and Mu-12 lack them as well.
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Okay this is getting out of hand, but just because Rachel treated Jin like that, she's like crossing the Moral Event Horizon!? What the hell, editor!?
Come on, just because you really don't like what the character is doing, doesn't mean he/she crossed the Moral Event Horizon. If we go by the logic that put Rachel into Moral Event Horizon, then Litchi's Face–Heel Turn would be her Moral Event Horizon... but it's not, right?
This is getting like that one fiasco in CT where Jin is deemed crossing it by outright killing Noel while being in psychosis, or his Disproportionate Retribution for Carl... Come ON.
Edited by ChrisX Hide / Show Replies
Darkness Eternal / Neo Crimson (same person, from what I can tell) is a deluded fanboy of Jin and Bishonen characters in general. He tries to make comparisons between Jin and other anime characters that barely make any sense, plays his Fetish Fuel Up To Eleven, and now considers even the slightest insult against Jin a MEH.
Edited by Irikarul
Dear god, he just tried to label her a Complete Monster. Someone get this guy some help.
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
Huh? If Neo Crimson / Darkness Eternal is the same person, then his last time considering Jin crossing the MEH was...?
(And I thought the one I had with Litchi was bad enough...)
Edited by ChrisX
Actually, I just learned that Darkness Eternal and Neo Crimson are not the same person. Apologies to Neo Crimson if he's reading this.
.....
Erm, this is related to one list from Litchi that I added but...
Where does it say that Tall, Dark and Bishoujo has an age limit?? I added that to Litchi because it kinda fits; she's the tallest of the females thus far, she looks very bishoujo with her long hair, and her hair is dark colored. She pretty much fits in. Then somebody took it out because "She's too old to be that!". What the hell, man?
I've seen characters in other media probably older than Litchi, fitting in to the points... and they're still accepted as Tall, Dark and Bishoujo. As an example... Bayonetta (Certainly she's not of teenager age!). Well, does this mean that only that one editor think there is an age limit, or the trope has lost its meaning?
Edited by ChrisX
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Okay I just listed Litchi as a Horrible Judge of Character. Let's see how long it lasts or me getting proven wrong.
Would Carl and Kokonoe fit more into Paint the Hero Black or Villain Whitewashing Service? AFAIK, they're the only characters (DLC aside) who haven't been in either.
Edited by Irikarul Hide / Show Replies
I would say 'Hero' though... Kokonoe, while attracts many people to say she's horrible... is just that. Very vulnerable for Paint the Hero Black. Carl too.
Is it just me, or do people (particularly on Gamefaqs) have a tendency of treating Carl like a Complete Monster worse than Terumi or Relius? Sure he does some pretty messed up things from time to time, but does he really qualify for that type of treatment? People even say he deserved to be killed off by Hazama in his (non canon) bad ending.
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It's just his status as a Base Breaker acting Up To Eleven... You know how Game FAQS run...
I know because I'm no different than how I treat Litchi over there...
...Why would anyone think that Carl is in any way worse than those two?
Seriously, I do not see how that's possible.
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
Just have to admit that while Carl IS lovable or sorts, he just hit some people the wrong way... then when you have those people take it Up To Eleven... Well, a lot of people from Game FAQS are like that.
Is it just on Game FAQS, though?
This is the thread I'm (partially) referring to:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/988981-blazblue-continuum-shift/56350708
Keep in mind that Chickenfrogman loves Hazama and considers Relius a pretty cool guy, but feels like Carl has crossed the Moral Event Horizon and needs to die in a pool of his own blood. By the way, is it just me, or are most Carl haters Ragna mainers like this guy?
Should Trinity (the 6th hero, not Platinum) and Ada/Nirvana get seperate sections on the character page?
Page could probably use a cleanup. I'm not familiar with all the charaters, but does anyone else agree that maybe the characters should be seperated by folders, like "Protagonist, "Antagonist," "Supporting Characters." Something like that?
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I think this one is pretty fine on its own... Before Street Fighter got separated into multiple pages, they're separated with "In what games they debut at" (regardless of alignment), and after that, non-playables. Other games seemed to follow suit too...
So if you insist on foldering, make it "Playable Debut at Calamity Trigger", "Playable Debut at Continuum Shift", "NPC".
Yeah.
Edited by ChrisX
That would spark quite a bit of debate on who fits where. For example, some people would say Bang and/or Carl (since they're the only ones traveling alone right now IIRC) are supporting characters, while others would prefer seeing them as protagonists.
The "Debut" one seems the best then since it would cause the less amount of debate. Just wanted to make sure other people actually agreed before I made any action. The main reason I was suggesting was because with all the extra characters, it was starting to get slightly disorganized, at least from my perspective.
Should the fact that Relius is evil really be a spoiler? I mean, just look at him. Also, the fact that he starts at the Moral Event Horizon and just keeps on going from there should tip more than a few people off.
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Game's out for a month. I don't suppose the CS spoilers should be marked again.
So, does that mean it would be OK to take off most of the spoilers for him?
.....
Here's one thing that has been bugging me since the CS Spoilers. And yes, I shall put it all on spoilers before CS comes out.
Would Litchi fit more on Neutral Good or True Neutral? As shown in CS, it looks like she's not really aligned to the good side at all. Being struck on her weak point, she ended up on the antagonist side, which could sum up this in her personality: "Anyone that can help me in saving Arakune gets my support." Also, she doesn't seem to mind NOL soldiers even when the Orient Town people really dislike NOL, using the statement of 'You can't judge a book from its cover.' This supports her True Neutral tendencies which means she usually won't take sides, unless threatened. However, she still seems to be still remaining with her good heart, her joining with antagonist was due to her love being threatened and she has more chances to save her if she's with NOL... would that still make her Neutral Good (in here, the 'law' is the consensus of protagonism and antagonism)? In Soul Series, when Sophitia makes a Face–Heel Turn similar to Litchi; she's still considered a Lawful Good character, would the same apply here?
Also, I kinda get the feeling that Relius did NOT threaten Litchi at all, and she just offered herself to join NOL. Obviously, Arakune possesses much knowledge that would be beneficial to NOL and Relius' purpose of capturing him seems to be more of to extract that knowledge, not to get Litchi to join him, since other than being the only person who cares about him, she... really doesn't have something that would be beneficial to NOL so much that they want her in their ranks (thus making her look like 'joining on her own will to save someone' rather than 'being coaxed to join'). Would that be true? The people of Dustloop seems to have forgotten about investigating her actions and seems more busy in investigating about the relationship between Saya-Ragna-Jin-Noel, so this is why I ask here.
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When Litchi still has the compassion to give a crying little boy a much needed hug in his time of need, you know she still has a lot of good in her. I'd lean towards Neutral Good personally.
Is that after or before her Face–Heel Turn? It would make more sense if she did it after, because if not, it's as if she ends up betraying that kindness by joining NOL. As for how it could happen after her Face–Heel Turn, it's like this: In Jin's story, Tsubaki already knew the truth about Noel (which happens in her story), so presumably, Jin's story take place after Tsubaki's. Thus, there is a possibility that Carl's story take place after Litchi's.
What do you guys think of the job Roland has done with all of his recent large-scale edits? I personally think that he could have worked more on the Carl section, but his job on everything else seemed to be well done.
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Ok, who's the jerk who reverted a fair bit of my edits, decided to add back in ALLCAPS again, and so forth?
Ok! I've reverted some stuff. Please, people, don't clutter it up again. If I missed things, please, feel free to add corrections.
Would any of the characters in this game be considered The Scrappy? Not the Tier Induced Scrappy, but the story-based kind.
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I remembered that part of Noel's paragraph basically got very annoyed at her tendency to cry at the drop of a hat. Maybe she might be considered one or something.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
I think she might be a bit too popular for that. For some reason, I get the nagging feeling that Carl might be considered a scrappy, because it seems that almost everyone hates him (myself not included) for some reason, particularly on the PS 3 Gamefaqs boards. I'd rather not consider Carl a scrappy, but do other people on this site? Why do so many people hate him all of a sudden, anyway? :(
He's been hated since CT. Maybe it's his constant 'What do you think, Sis?' attitude. Or maybe some people just dislike his costume, or that he's not an epic trap like Bridget...
I haven't had long to see more of Carl, so I kinda wouldn't know. He does have quite an attachment to his dear sister-bot thingie though so maybe I can see the attitude
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
@Chris X: So him talking to an inanimate object (which actually is his sister, in a sense) qualifies as a reason for hatred? ?_? And IMO, his costume is cooler than everyone else's.
Maybe that's why we should hate Johnny from Ed Edd N Eddy. Like I said before, I haven't really seen enough of Carl so I don't know what to think. Also with that hat Arc System should have given Carl a Fastball Special attack of some sort.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
@Irikarul: Like I said, it's what other people think... I'm actually okay with Carl, but anytime I come to 'Carl Hate Topic', his costume and sis complex seems to be what other people say about why they hate him. I may be wrong. It's been awhile since I saw the Carl hate topic again.
Though I'd hate to say this, but... Litchi and Tsubaki may seem to be candidates of Scrappies. While Litchi does look sympathetic, I don't think her joining NOL just to save Arakune is going to get her further sympathies, since it makes her look completely selfish and willing to burn the world in order to save Arakune. Tsubaki is even worse when despite being 'brainwashed' or sorts, when her motive is to kill her best friend out of jealousy, it's not going to do her any good, especially when said best friend is Noel.
And due to Lambda's story, Kokonoe may be thriving between this or a flat out Complete Monster.
Edited by ChrisX
Uh, Chris X?
Tsubaki definitely isn't a Scrappy. Scrappy characters have nothing to do with their canonical alignment. Scrappy characters have to do with bad writing and widespread fan hatred. Tsubaki doesn't get that yet.
As for Tsubaki's actions, replay her path, Jin's path, and the ending. Not only does it flat-out show that Hazama is somehow brainwashing or controlling Tsubaki, during the True Ending her attitude towards Noel seems more tormented and wistful than murderous jealousy. I very much doubt that plotline is even remotely finished, since Tsubaki is clearly a decent person at heart. Furthermore, as Tsubaki seems to genuinely believe in a Lawful ideology, her conflict of interests- uphold the law vs save a friend- is a genuine moral dilemma, not simply because she resents Noel's status.
Litchi...who can say? I haven't seen any Scrappy status for her just because of a Face–Heel Turn. Sure, the motivations may be irrational, but they're treated as such within the universe.
Edited by Roland
I have seen in some board that they really didn't take Litchi's irrational Face–Heel Turn well. For these reasons:
- The info about Relius capturing Arakune just so she joins NOL turns out to be false, thus it's by her own will that she joins NOL. Sympathy point -1.
- Arakune already warned her to forget about him and move on. Litchi refused to put down, taking her Love Martyr status into extremes and made her join NOL. Sympathy Point -1.
- She decided to forget that she has friends that can make her cope with the loss of Arakune; which is the Kaka clan, Orient Town citizens and perhaps the Ronin-Gai, who loved her the way she is... and decided to join the thing that they hated: NOL. Sympathy Point -1.
I'm sorry, but as much as I want to symphatize with Litchi, these points make her completely unsympathetic. How do I look at her with sympathy when all these are not countered? If not, then she could very well be The Scrappy. Look, I really want to like Litchi again and would rather turn this into a Broken Base or sort, but if most of the arguments I heard are those who think she's completely selfish and unsympathetic in her decision, that would not be a Broken Base, but The Scrappy.
Edited by ChrisX
Okay, this is double posting, but...
After allocating through fanbases, I would say that Litchi is not The Scrappy, merely having Broken Base instead. Dustloopers seem to be sympathizing with her, while she pretty much become The Scrappy story-wise in Game FAQS only (I've lost count on how many GF-ers who now scorn her due to what she did).
Can we really tone the hyperbole down, folks? ALLCAPS is not necessary. Jin is not the most trollish character either; neither is Hazama/Terumi. The game is not the EPITOME OF METAL. Bang is not the most hot-blooded character ever. Ragna isn't exactly deep.
I like Blaz Blue as much as the next guy, and I appreciate that we think the characters are kinda cool, but this is really annoying. It makes us and the game sound stupider, not cooler.
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Okay, there's a lot of things I really don't know thanks to the spoilers, so I'm gonna ask here anyway.
Is it true that Relius specifically threatened Litchi to kill Arakune if she doesn't join NOL? The general consensus of the other spoilers is that Litchi joins NOL because Terumi told her that NOL is developing a cure for Arakune, there was no mention that Relius told her that "You don't want to join? Fine, he dies.". This will really affect whether it counts as Relius' Moral Event Horizon or not, because if he didn't threaten her, he's crossing a different, and a bit lighter horizon (since Arakune is already pretty Woobie-ish, and he's made to suffer more), as well as giving questions to Litchi's situation... if she didn't join out of desperation of keeping Arakune alive, it makes her look less tragic than we thought, that she, without remorse, joined an evil organization, rather than being forced to. She might not even count as an Anti-Villain and Tragic Villain anymore, and may one day elevate herself to a villain you won't feel pity for.
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I think this Dustloop user explains it better than anyone:
Chris X, I think you have to understand that just because Litchi recently joined an evil organization just to save one of her coworkers does not make her a saint or a baby eater. She may just be a tragic case of The Unfettered.
Most people just talked more about OMG SAYA IS TEH BIG BAD!! whereas not much talked about him, which is probably why I spoke a lot about her.
And did you say Tragic? Most of the spoilers refer that all Terumi needed was to tell her this "Hey, we have Arakune's cure. Join and you shall have it!", whereas some other (this very site) say "Hey, we have Arakune's cure. Join and you shall have it! By the way, if you don't join, Relius kills him." If what happens was the first, then she wouldn't look so tragic but selfish to the extreme instead, considering she's seen how NOL works in Orient Town, and the townspeople that loved her HATED it... This is like if NOL told her to burn Orient Town, she'll do it wholeheartedly, without remorse. After all, this makes her look like having the mindset: "Fine, I'll sacrifice thousands of people that cares about me, but I don't care as much as the guy I'm saving... as long as that guy's safe!". All that I need to know and no one answers was about Litchi's free will and remorse: Does she have to be forced to join and feel remorse in joining an evil organization that will have her do things that goes against her moral code (if there is any at all), or she willingly joined, knowing that she will do horrible things and will not have a single regret at it?
I read that post, and nowhere did it mention that Litchi showed remorse in joining. Which can sum up to this: She approves Terumi and Relius happily crossing over Moral Event Horizon, and doesn't look at them funny or disgusted for that. Maybe she's not a saint, but any decent person would CRINGE at learning what they both would do, and it would seem that Litchi wasn't even implied to be cringing, which casts doubts on her overall decency.
Also remember, if the consensus say that Relius wasn't threatening her at all, and Terumi just told her that they have the cure, some of the pages are in for an overhaul. Most of them listed as if Relius captured Arakune purposely to bring Litchi to the dark side and she had no choice, but if she did it on free will... this means Relius, while still a Complete Monster, hasn't crossed a certain Moral Event Horizon people make him out to be (which means, he got farther behind Terumi on the race). Also this site say that Litchi is very reluctant on joining NOL... but if it turns out that she's not reluctant? We need to change some entries too. Where does it show that she's reluctant?
For a comparison, try looking at Tales Of Destiny, especially on Leon's last moments. It's very similar with Litchi's, but I'm still confused which one would fit best with Litchi's current situation: Original Leon (Sadistic Jerkass who'd doom the world to save his beloved) or Remake Leon (Eventually mellowed, but really had no choice in betraying his friends because the guy keeping his beloved hostage is way too powerful.)
Sorry about this very long rant... but I need some definitive answer... badly!
Edited by ChrisX
Chris X, why not wait until the CS story mode comes out for your definitive answer? It comes out in only about a week. I doubt anyone on here or Gamefaqs, myself included, knows the answers any better than you do (by the way, I know the "Soul Stealer" account there is you). Maybe you could ask Suzaku from Dustloop. He might give you an answer if you're that desperate for one before console release. Why ARE you so desperate to know, anyway?
Well, if only everyone was talking about everyone fairly (Who're you in Gamefaqs, by the way? Never seen you there). Everyone is all 'Hakumen this, Saya that, Ragna this, Jin that, Noel this, Rachel that, Terumi this, Platinum that, Tsubaki this, Lambda that, Mu this, Rachel that...'... There's very little spilled info about Litchi, or even Bang, Tao, Carl, Tager, and Litchi's Face–Heel Turn was one of the big WHAM given in the ending, yet no one is talking about it a lot, just taking it with just a stride, as in... "Oh, so that big boobed woman suddenly turns evil? Pfft, big deal.". It's true that they're not big players of the universe, but they're still relevant, damn it! (And joining Dustloop solely for asking that doesn't seem to be a good reason to join, so that's out)
Why am I desperate? Erm... Irikarul, I'd say you better go look at the forum for the topic about Blaz Blue. This is gonna take long and get a bit off topic at times, so I'll continue there.
I don't think anyone specifically said that Relius threatened to kill Arakune if Litchi didn't join. She did join of her own accord (with Hazama's manipulation} but only because she's desperate to bring back Arakune. If she were to become a villain, rather than just temporarily joining up w/ the antagonists, she would probably still only be a Punch-Clock Villain, rather than say, a Complete Monster. Besides, I don't know if Litchi even knows just what kind of things Terumi and Relius have done. Even if she did know and would try to fight back on her own, they still surpass her in terms of strength, especially Terumi since he's one of the six heroes. Working with antagonists for a benevolent goal doesn't automatically=evil, though.
However, I have to agree w/ you for saying that the Dustloopians (did I just make up a word?) talk too much about the main family (Ragna, Jin, Saya, etc.), to the point of exhaustion. One user even made an almost essay-length post about the importance of eyes (mainly those of the aforementioned family) in Blazblue's story. I normally respect this person's analyzation of the plot, but even for me, this got to the tl;dr point, where I just want to say "I DON'T CARE! SHUT UP!!" through the screen.
As I've said before though, the console version is right around the corner, so if I were you, I'd wait until then to make any edits to the page. As for who I am on Gamefaqs: I'm Qumere.
Well, since you continued here... and I just removed the rant in the forum... all right, we can continue here. Or you can drop a IM address, since this is quite the personal issue, and to be honest, I haven't gotten a good friend to talk about BB, especially in times in need like these. You can contact me at Yahoo/AIM/MSN.
I would make a huge wall of text, but I'll just make it short, we can discuss the rest in the IM, but the point that I'm trying to make wasn't because Litchi might turn into an evil Complete Monster by joining NOL. I'm always sure that she stays good. However, the fact about her remorseless joining NOL worries me that she is revealed to be a self-serving Bitch in Sheep's Clothing, acting nice to everyone, but in truth cares very little about them and gleefully join NOL to reach her own, selfish goal (even if it is good). So I'm not talking about her turning evil, but turning petty rather than the usual kind, loving woman she was.
(P.S: I would say 'Dustloopers', personally. And why do I never see you post in Game FAQS, especially about plot?)
Edited by ChrisX
Was Nu's story mode in Calamity Trigger a dream of hers, or did it actually happen?
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It's a dream, most likely. Rachel outright said it anyway.
On that note, calling Nu a mega-bitch in her profile is a bit much. She was never really that bitchy. She was always either robotic or sweet as pie. Going through her story showed she was actually a fairly innocent and misunderstood girl. She just... y'know... wanted to be with Ragna. A LOT.
.....
Was what Jin really did to Carl is a Moral Event Horizon? This sounds like someone who thinks Jin is a Complete Monster and Never Live It Down, while his development in Continuum Shift shows that he really gets better...
Counterpoints: Carl wasn't really in his sanest self during that event, and so was Jin. Also, Jin did that as a retaliation of Carl trying to kill him and snatch Yukianesa away, not because For the Evulz, nor did Jin instigated the fight in the first place. It may be a Disproportionate Retribution, but I just think it's far from being a Moral Event Horizon...
So... ya think?
Edited by ChrisX Hide / Show Replies
While Jin isn't a Complete Monster (really no one is in this game so far aside from Terumi and Relius), it's pretty obvious that he didn't consider Carl much of a threat. IIRC, he thought of Carl as a joke more than anything. It could perhaps be considered a MEH in the fact that Jin was enjoying himself way too much during that moment. Then again, due to time loops, it could be ignored, since Carl is still alive and well. If you plan to remove the MEH example, at least keep it as Disproportionate Retribution, because I think Jin was going a little too far there.
Lovable Yandere
Should we spoil Platinum's personalities? They are referred to in the first magazine pictures we saw of her, but also they're hardly incredibly important from a story view, which is the main thing we should be being careful of right now.
We'll also have a deluge on the 27/7, when we have American Tropers who can actually read the Story Mode text, so hopefully there'll be less inconsistencies.
When Greek meets Greek, so does the tug of war begin.
Just a question, where did we get all these CS ending details, like Jin being described as the world's "antibody" and what happens to Ragna and Mu?
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Dustloop forums. Specifically: [[
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?5362-Blazblue-storyline/page589 here]]
Update Hazama and Terumi since Terumi is now his own playable character So everything Hazama with Terumi's personality moved to Terumi's own page?