During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. " to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Oh, okay. Does it have enough context?
I'm more for the picture of Red crushing that one character.
Here's a full effort-post for Erich Von Raitenau, since I was sleepy last night when I mentioned him.
Who is Erich Von Raitenau? What has he done?
Erich Von Raitenau, alias "Adam" is the main villain of the first Trauma Center game and its remake; he is the world's most dangerous bioterrorist and inspired by Shoko Asahara, leader of the infamous Aum Shinrikyo cult that gassed the Tokyo subways in 1995. He was born at the end of the 19th century, meaning he's in his 120s when the game takes place, and at some point came to believe that humankind is a disease on the planet and deserved the "gift" of death. As such, he has a serious vendetta against all doctors and medical technology, who he believes keep the "disease" of humanity alive longer than nature intended.
He begins his attacks by founding the terrorist organization Delphi, which designs completely new diseases to use in their attacks. The worst and the one the game focuses on is GUILT, a breed of artificial parasite that turns the body's own immune system against itself, resulting in a gruesome death. There are different strains of GUILT, each one designed to kill people in an ironic was representing a "sin" of humanity (for instance, there's one that represents war that makes the victim suicidal, one that represents overpopulation that causes the victim to become riddled with tumors, etc.). His victims include a teenage girl, the adorable little sister of one of the main characters, and the kindly old Secretary of Health and Human services, all receiving, in addition to the disease, a mocking letter telling them how they deserve to die. Once the doctors at the Cadeuceus Medical Institute figure out how to treat GUILT, Delphi steps up their game by spreading an airborne form of the parasite through entire cities.
Erich also founded his own pharmaceutical company to get funding and make his research look legitimate, and in the final raid on his battleship headquarters his most bloodcurdling secret is uncovered: the GUILT parasites require an incubator, and each incubator is a child, kept in suspended animation and forced to play host to the parasites. It's also revealed that the geneticist who created the strongest form of GUILT was blackmailed into doing so under pressure of his own daughter being used as one of the guinea pigs. "Adam" is finally found at the bottom of his headquarters, where it's revealed he's little more than a withered, rotting corpse kept alive by advanced machinery (a la the Emperor of Mankind), but he can still speak and reveals his endgame to the heroes: he planned for his parasites to weed out the weak, with the few survivors being placed into suspended animation, like him, where, at least in his view, they would not be a drain on the world's resources. In the end he suffers the deliciously karmic fate of having his suspended body taken into custody by British Intelligence, where his "immortal" flesh is used to develop advanced disease cures. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Heinous standard?
He's responsible for literally everything bad in the game, and the only other named villain, the geneticist Prof. Blackwell, isn't willingly helping. Easy pass.
Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors?
No excuse. Mitigating factors is where I'd like some opinions. He seems to genuinely believe everything he says about humanity, with doctors being "evil" for keeping humans alive past their time. Granted, he's a gigantic hypocrite who doesn't see any problems with making himself immortal, but, again, he seems sincere in his belief that he doesn't put strain on the Earth's resources in that state, nor would the people who survived his plagues.
Conclusion
I'm leaning toward a but I'd like some opinions on his motives. That'd be the only thing keeping him off as he clears every other criterion.
Thoughts?
edited 22nd Nov '14 11:14:50 AM by HamburgerTime
I have two proposals: Jonas mortlake and the new chairman of Nightrise from The Power Of Five.
Who are they?
They are the Co-Dragons of Chaos, leader of the old ones (an Always Chaotic Evil race of Eldrich Abominations bent on destroying the world), and the secondary villains of the final book, oblivian. Nightrise is an evil group that wants to free them so they can Take Over the World (yes, take over, not destroy, because Nightrise is full of morons who think they will be rewarded). Jonas is the chairman's second in command.
What do they do?
The chairman holds a conference where 10000 high ranking Nightrise members are meeting. The chairman has them all taken away to be amputated and have their limbs replaced with weapons to aid in the fight with the five (the chosen ones destined to defeat the old ones). When they refuse to go, guards come in and beat the tar out of them. As this is going on, Jonas laughs. The chairman orders Jonas to go to the prison where Scott and Pedro (two of the five) are being kept, and corrupt Scott. If Jonas fails, he will end up like all the other members. Jonas convinces Scott to join them and lets Scott chose which one of Pedro's fingers will be broken (he choses the left pinkie). Both Jonas and the chairman plan on betraying Scott later. When Matt (another of the five) is captured, the chairman has him beaten, flayed, and crucified, and shows this to Matt's friend Richard, saying they will force Matt to watch them kill Richard and than keep him alive for decades of repeated torture. Meanwhile, Jonas decides to kill Scott when he has a change of heart. Before Jonas can kill Scott, he is killed by Scarlate (another of the five and the only female member) and her ally. Richard gives Matt a mercy killing, and the chairman is crushed and killed by a falling stalagmite.
Redeeming features?
They are both loyal to the old ones, but according to our decision on Bellatrix, loyalty alone is not redeeming.
jjjThe Chairman sounds like a keep, but Jonas doesn't sound nearly as bad, since the Chairman makes it clear he's expendable too.
I finished Bayonetta 2. I agree with the motion to cut Balder and keep Loptr
Balder's been cut; Loptr needs a writeup (or effort post).
P.S. Bayonetta, Y U NO come out for PC?
So do we have any more votes for Felix? It's 5 to cut, 4 to keep/add, which isn't a clear majority.
I'll give a to Felix. Sounds like just another minion.
Any other oppinions on the chairman of Nightrise?
jjjTentative on the Chairman, definite to Loptr.
I'll assume that the Iron-Masked Marauder is a keep?
Probably.
Any opinions on this?
Looks good.
Chairman of Nightrise. Thoughts on Von Raitenau?
I was the one who suggested Colton Banes and Susan Mortlake from Power of Five and I now think that the new Chairman counts too. In fact I was thinking, but never actually posted, that he would be the only one to challange Mortlake and Banes in terms of heiniousness.
edited 22nd Nov '14 10:33:32 PM by randomtroper89
for Vidian and Von Raitenau ("life is a disease" isn't any excuse in my eyes). Unsure about the Chairman.
For Chairman, leaning for Jonas. As for Von Raitenau, he doesn't seem enough of a Well-Intentioned Extremist to me to disqualify him.
For Franken Fran, do Gavrill and Steabe Jocks also count?
- Pokémon 4Ever: The Iron-Masked Marauder is the film's Big Bad and one of Team Rocket's elite agents. The Marauder designed the Dark Balls, which devolve any Pokemon caught in them into mindless evil against their will, and he uses them in his quest to capture Celebi. He demonstrates this by corrupting a Tyranitar into destroying a hunter's camp to get him to spill information about Celebi. Coming into conflict with Ash and Sammy, the Marauder fails in his first attempts to stop them. Ambushing them later, the Marauder captures Celebi, electrocutes it into submission, and crushes Ash's hands until he passes out. Corrupting Celebi, the Marauder has Celebi wreak wanton destruction on the forest, intending to use it to betray Giovanni (Team Rocket's head) and Take Over the World. Meeting resistance, the Marauder tries to directly kill Ash and Sammy and tortures Suicune when it defends them. When Celebi finally regains her senses, she dies as a result of the Marauder's abuse. Callous, and with no regard to who he hurts, the Iron-Masked Marauder was a true sociopath with no altruistic qualities to counter his evil.
edited 23rd Nov '14 6:50:50 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsI'm not familiar with Franken Fran so I don't know about those other two. Kyle Jacobs might know.
Do people think 6 to 4 is a clear enough vote to cut Felix from Red vs Blue or is that too close to call?
By all means, go ahead.
What he said.
on Felix, go right ahead.
And the Franken Fran fixes look good. Will have to reread to check out the other two.
edited 23rd Nov '14 1:56:23 PM by KyleJacobs
I'm sorry for the incident in which you thought I was advertising my fanfic...I just figured two of them would be qualifiers since one of them commits genocide on a regular basis and the other is a Walking Wasteland that drained the life out of her guildmates and many innocent people...
Anyways, I made some small changes to Cousin Charles's CM entry on Jade Green's YMMMV page.
Charles, Judith's creepy forty-year-old cousin, is rapidly revealed to be a Dirty Old Man even before it becomes apparent that he is the villain...but as it is gradually revealed, he crossed the Moral Event Horizon three years before the book even began. After the Title Character (as well as the ghost that is haunting the household of the book) rejected his advances towards her, he proceeded to murder her and chop off her hand when she tried to defend herself. After Judith likewise rejects him in favor of the miller's son Zeke, he plans to murder her as well, though not before raping her. He also set the kitchen of those who offered him shelter (as he is unemployed and an alcoholic) on fire to collect the money in Uncle Geoffrey's will after he planned to give a percentage of his money to Judith once he passed away.
edited 23rd Nov '14 1:52:57 PM by Cakeman
http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/NES_Godzilla_Creepypasta/Chapter_6:_Extus Near the bottom, of him killing and eating the angel.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts