Episodic troping; or adding subjective information as a series goes on

I was browsing some Dragon Ball, Nostalgia Critic, and Yu-Gi-Oh pages and noticed that a lot of tropers add new items, particularly to YMMV pages and subpages, as soon as an episode comes out. This isn't always a bad thing, but a fairly common result is knee-jerk reactions to events in an episode that could be rendered obsolete in future ones.

IE 'They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot by not revealing a character's backstory' when such an event could happen the very next episode, or troping Funny or Nightmare Fuel moments episode-by-episode and frame by frame. (Anime.Yu Gi Oh Arc V and Anime.Yu Gi Oh Vrains and their subpages are particularly bad about this.)

I believe there's a new administrative item called Speculative Troping, which also covers this sort of thing, but I thought a thread would help with any clean-up now and in the future. Particular pages I noted these issues on are YMMV.Dragon Ball Super, Awesome.Yu Gi Oh Arc V, YMMV.Yu Gi Oh Vrains, NightmareFuel.Yu Gi Oh Arc V, and YMMV.Demo Reel, which seems to have been troped episodically despite having only 6 episodes to its name.

edited 7th Apr '18 10:55:42 AM by lalalei2001

The Protomen enhanced my life.

I second this- it's become a major issue with many series, and really has been so for years, and really is past the point where it should have been addressed.

Even thought I've been guilty of this in the past, I agree that kneejerk reactons are an issue. I often see Internet Backdraft regularly added even when the issue is immediatly forgotten.

I also see tropers adding Seasonal Rot for ongoing seasons even when there's a still large amount of unaired episodes.

I know for Broken Base entries, we currently have a six-month moratorium to prevent knee-jerk responses and to make sure that the entries are relevant long after a work's initial release. Maybe we could have the similar moratoriums for other problematic tropes?

Alright something I mentionned earlier.

From the Flash episode The Flash 2014 S 4 E 19 Fury Rogue that literally aired a few hours ago.

Spoilers ahead!

It really sounds like shoehorning Dethroning Moment Of Suck on the YMMV tab. There's like zero explanation about how those things qualify as an Internet Backdraft, something that causes a massively negative response on the internet. I took a quick look at the reddit and I can't see it.

Honestly cut it. It was added from the history page by someone with a noticeable history of shoehorning these IB entries based on there own opnions. Im been meaning to ask is the earth x nazis thing really Internet Backdraft as when I googled I couldn't find that much controversy on it.

edited 25th Apr '18 1:38:21 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

I mean the death of Laurel Lance in season 4 of Arrow or Oliver and Felicity getting married with Barry and Iris at the end of the crossover event are both good examples of Internet Backdraft because they both got massive backslash from the fandom and are still remembered years or months later. Who's going to complain about a Monster of the Week getting easily defeated in a week or two?

As I said cut it and maybe PM the person who added it about this.

edited 25th Apr '18 5:00:47 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Anecdotally, yeah, I have seen some commentary about how it's in extremely poor taste for the DC shows to depict "Nazi versions" of heroic characters when fascist and neo-Nazi ideologies are a serious present problem. I don't know how common it is, but it's definitely out there, not just this one editor complaining.

Professor Grimm seems to be a repeat offender of misusing Internet Backdraft as though it was his blog and adds it as Opinion Myopia.

YuYuGiDigiMoon seems to have episodic troping going on in the description, with links to the latest chapters of works and updates from the author about goings-on in their life.

The Protomen enhanced my life.

I've noticed this before as well (and I apologize if I've ever been guilty of these kinds of things, but I don't think I've ever added Internet Backdraft before). I remember I did remove one of ProfessorGrimm's entries for Internet Backdraft, for the "Guest Starring John Noble" episode of Legends of Tomorrow. And as uncomfortable as I am being a tattletale...well...this was added today:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/ArrowS6E20ShiftingAllegiances

edited 28th Apr '18 9:15:26 PM by speyeker

Perhaps we should have a policy of restricting the addition of Audience Reactions to an Episodic Series like the one that I recall was once in place for Handling Spoilers: Do not add Audience Reactions for an Episode until a certain amount of time (I'll open the bidding at 2 months) has passed.

---

Then there's the related problem of Headscratchers or Fridge Logic going up soon after an episode is released; if the headscratcher is answered in a later episode, then either the answer would either be spoilered out, thus violating the current Spoiler Policy, or rendered a Late-Arrival Spoiler for the episode in question. Indeed, in truely episodic series,^note TV, Comics Anime & Manga, the presence of the headscratcher itself is a Late-Arrival Spoiler; are Headscratchers, the Moments, and the Fridge supposed to be for post-episode viewing discussion or for post-series viewing discussion? And, if the latter, then what of Longrunning series? Or, really, any current series at all?^note Episodic or not.

It may well be that we should start treating Individual Seasons^note or groups of Seasons in series like the Pokemon Anime and the Law & Order shows as individual works within the "Franchise" that is the show/comic proper for the purposes of chronicling Tropes and Reactions.^note including the Moments and etc.

edited 29th Apr '18 5:33:57 PM by DonaldthePotholer

I disagree with adding a time restriction to audience reactions, unless said reaction needs to be long-lasting to qualify (such as Broken Base).

As for spoilers on Headscratchers and Fridge, the "post-viewing" rule means "caught up to the latest episode or installment" for unfinished works. If an old question is answered in a new episode, it should not be spoilered out since anyone reading the page is assumed to have seen this episode already.

I haven't seen too many examples of that on Headscratchers and Fridge. I mean, yes, many times headscratchers get clarified in later episodes, but the initial question is typically about an actual confusing plot point, not just "they haven't answered this question yet and I'm confused."

For example, on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., one of the driving questions of the first season was "How was Coulson resurrected?" Nobody put that question on the headscratchers page. But when the question was seemingly answered, a bunch of headscratchers entries popped up about how the answer didn't make that much sense. Then later episodes clarified it.

Does all that make sense? I feel like I'm not articulating myself very well.

From Riverdale S 2 E 19 Chapter 32 Prisoners

Again, there's no explanation about how it qualifies as an Internet Backdraft.

edited 1st May '18 12:00:26 PM by Silverblade2

YMMV.Yu Gi Oh Vrains has a couple Broken Base and HSQ entries that... probably don't qualify.

"Broken Base:

• Some fans are starting to have doubts at the new series based on its use and introduction of the controversial new rules brought on by Link Summoning, while others are excited for the series due to its VR theme and interesting character and story potential.
• Masahiro Hikokubo once again, returning as the duel layout director has caused a stir after his last few showings in both ZEXAL and ARC-V. Having written every duel in all the series up to this point, many feel like he is far too burnt out to write any entertaining duels anymore, often pointing to Yuma's "prep for, then sit on, Utopia for the rest of the duel" strategy in ZEXAL and how wooden some of the duels in ARC-V became as the series went on, with the overuse of Action Cards and the infamous "You still take the damage!" line being uttered every other duel. His defenders, however, point out how Yuma's strategy was at least in character for himnote and how ARC-V was a case of trying to focus on all the summoning mechanics made it hard for certain duels to maintain that focus, and are confident with the series focusing on Link summoning, the duels will become a lot more entertaining and natural again now that Hikokubo doesn't have to stress balancing all the summoning mechanics each duel.
• The recap episodes. Are they justified due to production issues, or does the excess number of them between every few episodes tarnish the reputation of the show?
• Revolver's secret card used to defeat Ghost Girl being Mirror Force was either a welcome twist, or very underwhelming for just being a retro card."

"HSQ:

• Revolver using a classic card in his Duel against GO, revealed to be Mirror Force, came as a surprise for many.
• A meta example; the artist performing the second OP, "Go forward", is revealed to be KIMERU, the same artist who performed the final OP, "OVERLAP", for the original series.
• Playmaker performs a Ritual Summon in episode 48. The only other main character who used Ritual Monsters is Yugi from the original manga and Duel Monsters anime."

edited 1st May '18 2:01:57 PM by lalalei2001

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Broken Base can be brought to the proper cleanup page.

Where there's life, there's hope.

I noticed that TearJerker.Death Battle has a few examples that were obviously written before the episode was released, which go along the lines of "If this character loses, it means something sad will happen", usually in the form of "This character has loved ones who will be sad if they die" or "Both characters have loved ones, so no matter who wins it will be sad". Sometimes, someone will hastily patch on a "this one happened" at the end once the episode is out. I think these entries are problematic since they focus on what COULD happen, even if it ends up not happening.

(I also think it can fall under Fridge Horror if the consequences aren't actually acknowledged in the video, but this isn't the thread to discuss that.)

The Funny.Duck Tales 2017 page has 12 episodes of the show, some comics, and some shorts and is super long, likely due to episodic troping. For comparison's sake, Funny.Duck Tales 1987 had about 90 episodes plus comics and is much shorter.

edited 4th May '18 7:34:52 PM by lalalei2001

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Steven Universe just unleashed a HUGE spoiler, so episodic troping will likely ensue on the YMMV and tearjerker pages.

EDIT: Do you think this sort of thing leaks onto character pages too? A lot of modern cartoons seem to have character-separate trope pages compared to older ones (Yu-Gi-Oh has a huge cast but still has all the main characters on on page despite how tropable they are, while G4 MLP, Gravity Falls, and SU have separate pages for each cast member). I think it's partially because people add new tropes to their pages frequently whenever a new episode airs.

edited 8th May '18 11:12:04 AM by lalalei2001

The Protomen enhanced my life.

I haven't really checked many trope pages, but one that especially stands out as having problems to me is Cardfight!! Vanguard.

I love the series and watched the entire original series through twice (heck, nearly three times), but when I look at the trope page (Not even just the Headscratchers, Character, or YMMV pages, although they have similar problems) I see a lot of stuff that seems to be making assumptions as the series was running.

For example they say that (For the A Day In The Lime Light trope):

"Legion Mate looks like it'll be an entire season in the Limelight for Kai, considering what happens to Aichi."

This heavily implies to me that this is either from right before the season ran (As there was most likely info about it before it ran) or early in the season when it started. The season is over. I would have figured someone would have fixed this way back when.

And I'm not even certain if it would be considered that for Kai since he's one of the series' major characters. Isn't A Day In The Lime Light for more minor characters?

There's also a bunch of parts where they talk like a character had a Face–Heel Turn, but they never actually changed sides or anything. They turned into a cold and cocky jerk, but they never turned "evil" or became a true "antagonist.

It feels like they're making assumptions.

In general the Cardfight!! Vanguard trope page has a lot of things that are off or I don't think should be on a trope page (Caramelldansen Vid...? Is that something that is normally put on trope pages). I'm not entirely sure though...

This is all only scratching the surface and I'm not sure what to do about it...

Maybe someone with an outside perspective of the series could help determine what should and shouldn't be there? I'm caught up on all of the details so I'm not sure I'm really able to sort through it all...

Or someone more certain of what is accepted on TV Tropes.

edited 14th May '18 11:10:15 AM by CrystalMemoria

Working on a short cleanup of Reality Ensues by moving Star Wars examples to its own page and cutting too-short pages or entries that don't fit the trope, when I went back to the main page and saw Yu-Gi-Oh Arc-V is the only work listed so far with its own page.

Since Arc-V was troped episodically compared to other YGO shows, can anyone familiar with the show tell me how many of the entries on RealityEnsues.Yu Gi Oh Arc V fit the trope or not? it has more entries than entire film franchises!

edited 17th May '18 12:27:39 PM by lalalei2001

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Yes, and it attracts plot-tropes in the characterization-tropes subpage as well, which leads to duplication.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I noticed a lot of "so far"s and "will"s on YMMV.Kingdom Hearts III. It really gives off the vibe that tropers are adding new reactions as soon as new trailers and pre-release footage come out.