An expy is an unambiguous and deliberate copy of another, older character."
Note the word "another" and the words "unambiguous", "deliberate", and "copy". Those are the important words.
Here's your checklist:
- "Unambiguous": There is no doubt, there is no room for arguing that they aren't.
- "Deliberate": Done with intent.
- The resemblance is not accidental or coincidental. (For instance, being played by the same voice actor/actress is not sufficient to make an expy. Neither is a similar art style when they're both drawn by the same artist.)
- Word of God helps a lot with this point, but if the other points are present strongly enough, Word of God is not absolutely required.
- "Copy": A duplicate, an item made in imitation of another one.
- The expy came after the character they're an expy of. If they both were created at about the same time, it probably isn't an expy.
- The older character is never the expy, even if the other, later character is better known.
- Superficial traits (like a hairstyle, choice in clothing, preferred fighting method) are not sufficient to make an expy; the copy needs to also fill the same role in the work and serve the same purpose within the story.
- Major traits or characteristics being very different between the two characters is enough to make a character not an expy (for instance, the original is a demure Girl Next Door, the proposed Expy is a FemmeFatale — not an expy)
- "Another": One other. Note the singular. It doesn't say "several". If the proposed expy combines traits, characteristics, or features of two or more other characters, they are not an expy of any of them.
If an entry fails to meet even one of those criteria, it is not an expy and should be removed.. Actual expies are nowhere near as common as many editors think.
If you want to link to this post in your edit reason, please do.
Here's the link to copy and paste: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13983140170A37263400&page=1#5
edited 27th Mar '15 6:53:01 AM by Madrugada
Thing is, most if not all uses of Expy just amount to Counterpart Comparison anyway. I'm honestly not sure if there are problems with it.
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Zzzzzzzzzz
But Counterpart Comparison isn't just about "two characters are similar" either. It's
"they [the fans] are going to look at the new character through the old character's prism.
"They can like the new character because he resembles the old character, or hate them as a rip-off. Anti-fans can treat the new guy like a pointless, unnecessary character created only to attract the old one's fans, or turn them into a model of "This is how the original one should be written to be a good character." They will argue and compare the two, and only a few people who know both of them will be able to see the new guy as himself, not some other version of someone else."
"Sometimes, the new character will never get free from the older one, no matter what he does."
edited 8th Apr '17 10:47:18 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If that's the case, there's more of a problem with Counterpart Comparison misuse in itself. Because I've started to see it being used as a "secondary Expy" in several YMMV pages.
Maybe that's a topic for a Short Term project.
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Found this on Dragonball Evolution:
- Expy: To an extent, this version of Goku is an expy of Clark Kent from Smallville. Both are younger, angstier versions of classic superheroes, who, in the adaptation, don't even want their super powers and pine after a specific girl until they gradually accept their role as hero.
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"To an extent" That's code for "I know this isn't an example, but I wanted to add it anyway". Delete.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Found a Zero-Context Example
Expy: Many fans have noted general similarities between her and Dante.
This doesn't explain anything to someone who hasn't played Devil May Cry so I decided to hide it. If someone knows about the similarities between Dante and Bayonetta please edit the page correctly. (Also they're made by the same people so that does confirm it being deliberate at least)
edited 16th Apr '17 7:03:13 AM by ReynTime250
Is Dimentio an expy of Kefka? Their goal is the exact same, they're know they lack sanity and embrace it, they both have some comedy moments but are then showed to be Faux Affably Evil and both pretend to be working for someone but end up betraying them. Also both are clowns/Jesters that are Complete Monsters.
That's quite a bit of similarities and Square Enix and Nintendo worked together for their Role-Playing Games before so that could give us a chance of it being deliberate.
edited 17th Apr '17 8:01:26 AM by ReynTime250
Expy requires deliberate intent. It can't just be "possible".
Except Dimentio and Kefka's goal is the exact same and they do it in the exact same way. They both manipulated everything for their advantage and then used a legendary item to destroy everything to become a Physical God. Then when they were defeated they both tried to destroy for pure spite. Coupled with the other similar (If not the same) things they do including their personalities and that the people who made the games have worked with each other before, there is no doubt in my mind that they are almost identical characters and not just inspired by each other.
Planeswalker
The argument for Bayonetta being a gender flip of Dante is quite strong (badass with supernatural powers fights angels/devils respectively with style and pizazz), but I'm not sure Bayonetta is strictly an expy per se. Her and Dante's backstories aren't really the same.
edited 24th Apr '17 3:43:14 PM by PhiSat
Oissu!
Found this on King Arthur: Legend of the Sword:
- Expy: A secret son of royal lineage obtains a legendary weapon and eventually embraces a destiny as king to face a magically powered foe. As this film shot around the same time as Season 6 of the series in question (or at least released not long after it aired), it's reasonable to draw parallels from this particular Arthurian portrayal to Jon Snow. Although, given the source material, it may be equally valid to say Jon Snow was the Expy of King Arthur first.
No, the other one.
Doesn't contain any relevant context. That one needs enough context to describe those parallels it draws from the other character, rather than from the legend they're both based on in the first place. If you can't describe that, it's not an example.
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Zzzzzzzzzz
I also doubt that it's an example because the examples says that it could be considered to go the other way as well. There must be a clear "<A> Character came first. <B> character came later and was modelled on <A>. It can't be "<A> and <B> were both created about the same time and are a lot alike."
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Yeah, that doesn't even look like it's trying to claim it was intentional.
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Hello. I have a question: Since Expy is badly used (Is supposed to be an intentional clone of another character), Counterpart Comparison is when the readers/viewers see a similarity that the author didn't intend?
Just asking since in the webcomic i'm following, the author revealed to me that two characters were inspired by Yowamushi Pedal characters, but are not exact clones. Would this still count as an expy?
edited 21st May '17 2:38:18 PM by Tomodachi
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
From Cross Ange:
- Expy:
- Aside from the Shout-Out below, Ange also has similarities with Kamille Bidan:
- Both have parents in the government (Ange's parents are both the Emperor and the Empress while Kamille's parents are both Federation officers), are arrogant and stubborn which results in them being subjected to any forms of physical abuse and punishment, has a sport which helps in their piloting (Ange being an Iaria player, Kamille being a champion in Mobile Suit contests) and lastly, both are pilots of Super Prototype Transforming Mecha (Ange's Villkiss and Kamille's Zeta Gundam).
- Her apology letter in "Salia's Gloom" mirrors that of Kamille's own apology letter in Gundam Evolve.
- Their respective units have parallels too!! In "Arzenal Burns", Villkiss' Michael Mode share the same abilities with the Zeta Gundam in its Biosensor Mode (Waverider Crash included!).
- Character design wise, Tusk is Kira Yamato.
- Hairstyle-wise, Sala resembles Yurin L'Ciel.
- The sequence in "Ange and Tusk" when Ange and Tusk find out that Earth got destroyed by a lot of Ragna-mails is very similar to the Dark/Black History.
- Aside from the Shout-Out below, Ange also has similarities with Kamille Bidan:
Of those, only Ange and Kamille sound like they're even close to being an actual example of Expy, but the way it's written comes across as cherrypicking to force the comparison. Haven't seen the show so I can't really comment on it.
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Both Tusk and Kira have the features of not dying even when they should (Kira got nuked on and lived and Tusk bombed himself and seemingly took no visual damage). But I don't know much about anything else.
They're probably a case of a Counterpart Comparison.
The whole Tusk = Kira thing is definitely a thing, romancing an 'enemy princess', caught between sides, character design, and a bunch of other things.
The show itself massively milked the fact that it was being made by the people who made Gundam Seed and the opening itself had a staggering amount of identical shot for shot moments to Seed.
The others umm not really, borderline shoutouts and call backs and such but not expies in the slightest.
edited 3rd Jul '17 7:31:34 AM by Memers
It's important to remember this part of the trope description:
edited 3rd Jul '17 8:28:52 AM by dragonfire5000
, So Tusk and Kira might be an example, but the example as-written is most certainly not. And those connections definitely sound more Counterpart Comparison-y than Expy, but I really don't know for certain since, I'm only beginning to get familiar with it. It does sound especially fishy since Kira is the main character and The Ace in his work while Tusk seems to be... Well, wholly different in terms of his role.
No, the other one.
So, two options: someone writes up a proper example, or it gets deleted.
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Troper number9robotic just added three Expy entries to Characters.Overwatch Offense, all of which fail to meet several criteria of the definition as put forth in this thread. I went ahead and deleted them; noting it here for record-keeping purposes.
I don't think this could be anything else but intentional
◊.
They basically switched the roles of the couple where the girl is the MC instead of the boy. They even invert Brooding Boy, Gentle Girl that Kira and Lacus play straight.
They even gave him Lacus's pink suit to stick with the gender flip. (It was his mother's)
edited 4th Jul '17 7:34:07 AM by Memers
That's a shout out, not an Expy. Unless you're calling Ange an expy of Lacus.
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Shoving the mess into another trope that we'll have to clean up later is a non-starter.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.