Fan Myopia aside, right off the bad, what does the name tell you?

Sidetracked By Side Quest or Sidetracked By Mini Game should be more ample.

I'm getting serious déjà vu here...

Fixed the tag. The problem with the last one was the lack of a wick check, but since I know how the inbounds can be checked (there are a lot of them), those should be done too.

These are the inbounds. Looking through them, I couldn't really find anything useful. I suspect the gaming websites are causing the increased traffic, but I do not know the traffic of those pages.

The inbound referrals list should have a number count. That would be useful.

For me... I'm on the side for a rename. It's been on the table three times, the first of which showed slight support for a rename indicated by the crowner. The lack of a wick check on the second one was the mistake that killed it. My attitude towards them have changed. I'll see what I can do.

edited 12th Oct '13 11:15:32 PM by MikuruFan

Show the misuse. I support a rename since the name is awful, but we've been over this enough times to say that nothing is going to happen here if you can't prove anything.

Second thread says many come from Reddit. I remember another case of high inbounds caused by a link from Reddit. (It was Design Student's Orgasm.)

I'd like to see this renamed, but since the problem with this topic each time it's come up has been the lack of proof of misuse, I'll make this crystal clear: Either someone does a comprehensive wick check in the next 3-5 days or this gets locked.

edited 13th Oct '13 6:22:22 AM by Willbyr

Before that, what should the wick check tell us? I should know what to expect to find that will indicate a problem.

I know misuse is one thing, but are there any others?

I think underuse is more of a problem to check here.

Also, compare my post in the previous topic here. It's almost doubled the inbounds since then.

edited 13th Oct '13 1:01:32 PM by SeptimusHeap

Signs that it is not being used beyond the site would help, as would signs that it is only being used in relation to the series that spawned it. It could even be that wicks might only refer to the Gold Saucer area itself from the one specific game it appeared in. It may not have grown much since the last check, or perhaps it is has grown somewhat, but only in very limited areas. For example, it only gets used in relation to a more specific scenario or only by a particular fandom. Essentially, evidence that it has not caught on in some manner.

edited 13th Oct '13 1:01:47 PM by Arha

I did notice a high amount of Final Fantasy wicks from the list.

On underuse, high number of inbounds with a low number of wicks usually indicates to me that the trope is more familiar to readers than contributors.

I am trying to do the wick check, but I realized that since this is a YMMV item, I cannot objectively decide which is a "correct" use. Many of them are potholes. Some are just lists of minigames.

Perhaps this is not tropeworthy, and examples should be moved over to Mini-Game.

The standard for YMMV is always "does this entry sound like an example to you".

We don't have a "is it tropeworthy" standard for Audience Reactions - the one for objective tropes works with tropes only.

So if Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer is listed and it just lists a bunch of Mini Games, would I put that under ZCE or Misuse?

Yes, an example like:

• Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer: <Description of a Mini-Game, with no explanation as to how it sidetracks you>

would be a Zero-Context Example.

Misuse is what you can actually identify as, "This is not this trope." If you're not sure, there's probably not enough context.

Randomly, a Golden Saucer remix just started on my music player.

edited 13th Oct '13 5:03:42 PM by AnotherDuck

I'm getting a lot that really sound like the writing should describe Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!, but are from a video game. What do I do?

I hope this is sufficient. This is my first check of a YMMV item, so there may be a few oddities here and there.

A check of every four wicks, a total of 39. What I'm getting is that the users don't really know what it is about. It also gets used for just "minigame," "distraction," "too many minigames," or "something else you can do with the program."

Correct

1. Archive Panic
2. YMMV.Buzzy The Knowledge Bug
3. YMMV.Dawn Of The Dragons
4. YMMV.Final Fantasy I
5. YMMV.Grand Theft Auto Classic
6. YMMV.Kingdom Hearts II
7. Webcomic.Loserz (though suffering from Weblinks Are Notexamples)
8. Monster Arena
9. Now, Where Was I Going Again?
10. Plot Tunnel
11. YMMV.Rage
12. YMMV.Rogue Galaxy
13. Funny.VG Cats
14. YMMV.Xenoblade (it seems to describe "too many minigames," but because it actually explained how that is addictive I placed it here)

Misuse

1. WebVideo.Classic Game Room (minigame is better than the main feature)
2. VideoGame.Final Fantasy XIII (potholed to describe a pchange in plot)
3. Mildly Military
4. The Heavy
5. YMMV.Time Changer (not even a video game)
6. YMMV.The Way (more sidequests than plot)
7. What Were They Selling Again?

Unclear

1. Headscratchers.Batman Arkham Asylum (potholed)
2. VideoGame.Brave Fencer Musashi
3. YMMV.Nazi Zombies (more of a case of Just Here for Godzilla)
4. YMMV.Shenmue (links to a Penny Arcade strip)
5. YMMV.The Movies (creating machinima is not exactly a sidequest or minigame)

Zero-Context Example

1. Crutch Character (pothole by a name of a minigame)
2. YMMV.Dragon Quest
3. YMMV.Duke Nukem Forever
4. YMMV.Final Fantasy VIII
5. YMMV.Fossil Fighters
6. YMMV.Ganbare Goemon
7. Hue Pixel Painter
8. YMMV.Pokemon Stadium
9. YMMV.Sonic Adventure
10. YMMV.Soul Series
11. YMMV.Sumotori Dreams
12. YMMV.Test Drive
13. YMMV.Yakuza

• Total of 39 wicks
• 14 correct
• 7 misuse
• 18 unclear
• 17% misuse
• 46% unclear
• 64% misuse + unclear

Many of the examples considered to be complete and not contextless were those that had the system reward the player for playing the minigames. As a result, the player becomes more focused on the minigame for these benefits. Some of them are a certain aspect of the minigame that makes it so addictive. The Rage example explains how the minigames are based on random chance, making them addictive.

Perhaps the problem is not only the name, but the definition as well. Whether a player gets addicted to a minigame does not say a lot, but if there's an aspect that encourages it, intentionally or unintentionally, it has more meaning than "minigame X is really addicting."

edited 13th Oct '13 6:55:54 PM by MikuruFan

The description itself refers to minigames, sidequests, secondary stories, and claims it's not video game specific. According to that several of the misuse examples in the wick check aren't.

I will review them.

• Classic Game Room (minigame is not distracting, but the minigame is better than the main game)
• Final Fantasy XIII (plot switches to a petting zoo)
• Mildly Military (characters playing card games on duty)
• The Heavy (actually this one may be correct)
• Time Changer (YMMV page for a film, so if this trope applied it would not be YMMV... this is actually a ZCE)
• The Way (more sidequests than story)
• What Were They Selling Again? (the trope is not really connected to this one and would make more sense if it pointed to Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny! instead)

This is the reasoning I used when looking at the instances and determining whether it is misuse.

edited 13th Oct '13 7:36:49 PM by MikuruFan

Generally speaking, the problem seems more to be about understanding the definition of the trope rather than the name. For instance, playing card games while on duty is pretty much what happens if you have a card game in a game, where it fits the trope. And in many Western RPGs there are more sidequests than main quests (say, Baldur's Gate and Fallout series).

The What Were They Selling Again? link is, I think, technically correct, as I can understand why it was mentioned, but I'm not sure it's relevant enough.

Yes, I believe it is the definition that is confusing people.

I am still unsure of the validity of this, for reasons stated above.

I believe Classic Game Room is using it correctly via Conversational Troping. Mildly Military sounds like a correct usage (a card game as a minigame would qualify). What Were They Selling Again? doesn't explain how the trope is related, but it doesn't seem incorrect; I can see it being described as a similar phenomenon, in that they both involve the audience forgetting about the main point and being drawn to a secondary feature instead.

I can confirm Sonic Adventure, Batman Arkham Asylum, and Pokemon Stadium as valid. Shenmue and Brave Fencer Musashi strike me as acceptable.

The Way is talking about the volume of sidequests, not their distracting-ness, so it should be Loads and Loads of Sidequests rather than this.

I don't see how it would be invalid to refer to this trope in any of those contexts. Sloppy at worst, but certainly not misuse. It's just using the pothole to add information that isn't conveyed directly in the text. We do this all the time.

...Regardless, nothing in this wick check points to a problem with the name. There might be some wiggliness around the boundaries of the definition, but tropers aren't having any trouble making the leap from "Golden Saucer" to "minigame/side activity". I see no case for a rename.

And OP's "Guess That Trope and no other reasons" is not the least bit compelling. I put forth that this thread is a waste of time.

edited 13th Oct '13 8:54:47 PM by troacctid

An unclear name is certainly not helping though. It's why we renamed Gold Saucer.

Trope's not underused. Trope's not being misused for literal shiny objects. "Sidetracked" is right there in the name, conveying the core of the definition. It's not exactly Word Salad.

I am on the fence. On one hand, strong inbounds and that the name has some clarity, as I said in the old topic. On the other hand, so-so wicks and and the inbound growth only picked up after the redirects were added.

My decision will probably depend upon how many wicks mention the parts that the name doesn't cover.

No, but what characters are getting distracted by isn't always the minigame zone that the trope is actually about. Actually putting something like 'minigame zone' in the title could address that.

Just so we're clear, I'm not saying the name is definitely the problem, just that it is likely contributing and shouldn't be ignored so easily.

edited 13th Oct '13 9:20:14 PM by Arha