The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

Honestly I have never seen an example of that where they didn't at least crack the whip a little, it's too tempting, but yeah that probably exists somewhere.

It's not the whip alone. One has to engage in sexual BDSM acts. So there are loads of examples.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Eh? I would consider bossing around or cracking the whip to scare someone or just attempting to act the part least a plebeian version of it.

Most of the people in media who wear one for cosplay, Halloween or whatever plot has been cooked up do not actually know WTF a real one does.

This has gone a little off topic though.

edited 15th Oct '15 9:40:03 PM by Memers

~shimaspawn, could you please update the thread title and OP to reflect the new trope?

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Guys, I think you're overthinking this.

Sometimes opera gloves symbolize high status. In other cases, they don't. It's simple as that.

When they do symbolize high status, we get High Status Gloves. When they symbolize something else, we get something else.

There are no clear correlation between bridal gloves or dominatrix gloves and high status. Maybe they do have a similar etymology, maybe they don't, but that's irrelevant here. A trope works if the element is intended to convey a certain meaning. In these cases, bridal gloves convey that she's a bride, a dominatrix' gloves convey that she's a dominatrix. Any connection with high society is unintentional.

So, e.g., on the Typical Western Wedding Dress page, we'd have a mention that it's "related to High Society Gloves", but not its subtrope.

edited 16th Oct '15 4:18:58 AM by Rjinswand

What counts as "sexual BDSM acts" for the purposes of the trope? Because I could've sworn I've seen examples of fictional female characters that were definitely an attempted at a PG-13 portrayal of dominatrices as Parent Service or Getting Crap Past the Radar.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

A PG Non BDSM Dominatrix sounds like a very good YKTTW, one that could have legit examples unlike Dominatrix.

You are failing to realize the origins of a big wedding. A Wedding was a show by the father to present the bride in as much of a good light as possible since the future husband payed good money for her via a dowry. This means as high of a society as possible even for just one day.

Staples from that are still part of weddings today, like no one is suppose to have a dress as fancy or white to the wedding, the father of the bride still pays for the wedding, the groom shouldn't see her before the actual wedding, line up servants around the couple, it must be as high class as you can pay for, etc.

A Bride is A Princess For A Day.

The only time I have found where someone wears Opera Gloves that isnt 'high class or fancy' is stuff like Reluctant Fanservice Girl's page image or Shimakaze from Kan Colle which keep at much covered as they can but expose only the 'tantalizing not considered nudity areas', which would be a supertrope to Zettai Ryouiki. Those are not this but a Dominatrix outfit could still fall under that too. A Chainmail Bikini also would fall under that.

edited 16th Oct '15 6:21:41 AM by Memers

Those are good points about weddings but I think there is a distinction between fancy gloves woren at a wedding and fancy gloves woren to a party or just as a daily accessory. There might not be enough for fully seperate tropes (I'm willing to go there with anyone who believes so) but it should still be an Internalized Subtrope.

At one point there was a fashion for women to wear such gloves at all times, even when sleeping. Such a thing would something the wealthier class would do.

Always Wears Gloves would also be a glove trope, one person might be Always Wears Gloves AND High-Class Gloves which is fine.

edited 16th Oct '15 11:25:41 PM by Memers

I think Conspicuous Gloves already covers that.

Also I'll make the ykttw for High-Class Gloves tonight or tomorrow.

edited 16th Oct '15 11:51:15 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

@1106: That's Dressed As A Dominatrix.

@1107:

That's Dressed As A Dominatrix, it's currently in YKTTW, look it up.

Again, maybe wedding outfits have the same etymology as high class outfits. My point is that, in a fictional work, opera gloves on a bride symbolize that she's a bride, not that she's a high class lady. This specific bride, not brides as a whole. This specific bride in this specific work might be rich or poor. She wears opera gloves because she's a bride, not because she's rich.

@1108: They are clearly distinct things.

We're talking about what the outfit symbolizes about the character. We see Alice in a white dress, veil, and opera gloves. They symbolize she's a bride. They say nothing about her social status; she might be poor as hell. The only thing these opera gloves tell us, is that Alice is a bride.

If we see Alice wear opera gloves in social situations, without a wedding dress etc., it would symbolize she is rich or otherwise a high class lady. That is an example of High-Class Gloves.

She might be poor as hell but her status is 'a bride' and by default that status is higher than if she is not being a bride, she is even treated differently by everyone. If she is in it and not her wedding day she gets looks because it's inappropriate. She is literally a Princess for a Day, I can also think of other literal Princess for a Day works like Yes Pretty Cure 5's Non-Serial Movie and guess what, High-Class Gloves.

A bride, a Princess Dress, and such it's all the same concept just slight changes that are not worth creating an entirely separate trope for.

edited 17th Oct '15 9:15:47 AM by Memers

A bride might be treated like a princess, but that still doesn't make her a member of the high class elite. The narrative doesn't want to show us she's a rich high class lady. The narrative only wants to show us she's a bride.

High-Class Gloves is when gloves are a visual symbol that shows us the character has a high status in society. That's it.

"Bridal gloves" won't be a separate trope anyway. Opera gloves would just be mentioned as a common element of a Typical Western Wedding Dress on that page.

You are completely misunderstanding the point, you don't have to be a complete member of the super special awesome high class elite to wear them. There are varying degrees of high class and what it means.

A Wedding dress is made to be as fancy andhigh class as the father of the bride can afford which means they are deliberately trying to evoke High-Class Gloves and such as a trope, that alone is enough to be included the trope.

Your trope is fine but so is this one, this one is one element that makes you your ensemble but not exclusive to it nor absolutely required. Again like Frills of Justice.

edited 17th Oct '15 11:45:48 AM by Memers

I agree you don't have to be high class to wear gloves for fashion. A lot of luxuries in both fiction and real life can represent affluence in three general ways:

• Actual Affluence: A Socialite owns several pairs of gloves. Each of the highest quality fabric, and each pair is worn for different occasions.
• Aspirations of Affluence: A Housewife saves up to buy a pair of silk gloves for evening events, and a pair of lace gloves for daytime events.
• Image of Affluence: A model wears a pair of fine gloves and a matching Simple, yet Opulent evening dress as part of a costume for a luxury car ad.

These three things would also apply to High Class Fashion, and all the sub tropes (though each would have further distinctions of course).

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Yeah with that Image Of Affluence there are a lot of examples of it like Japanese Idol and Lolita Fashion / Elegant Gothic Lolita.

On the former stuff like Aikatsu loves to feature them, primarily on high level extremely fancy Frilly Upgrade outfits, usually paired with crowns and such [1]◊[2]◊. They don't have any true status, they are just well hard working Idols. And only one of them is the Senpai and has an aura of superiority and high class like a Senpai should be, she actually gets the most Opera Gloves costumes lol.

Basic Magical Girl follow the same rules like this Senpai◊ although the gloves with an element of practicality to them vs scrapes there.

On the latter, well its a fashion that originated by imitating high class Victorian era stuff and split off from there into many different varieties.

edited 17th Oct '15 3:01:18 PM by Memers

Plus a Mock Millionaire would also have an image of affluence.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

So okay, I think I understand now.

Opera gloves as a necessary element of Western Wedding Dress ^note (don't know why I called it Typical Western Wedding Dress) stem from Aspirations Of Affluence. I guess that could be mentioned in the Western Wedding Dress trope description.

The Opera Gloves page, however, still needs to be a disambig to:

• High-Class Gloves
• Western Wedding Dress
• Dominatrix
• Dressed Like a Dominatrix
• maybe others?

It would be pointed at High-Class Gloves no need for a disabiguation, as I said before the only examples that I can find are the 'covering everything up but specific areas to make them more tantalizing' the Supertrope to Zettai Ryouiki. Or the 'she has to wear some clothes so let's give her opera gloves◊

None of those currently exist on the page, nor covered by the trope itself, nor does that trope to point it to exist, and everything is specifically high class gloves.

edited 17th Oct '15 7:39:57 PM by Memers

High Class Gloves is up on ykttw. There aren't many examples, because I stuck with those I knew had more context than "In Work this character wears fancy gloves". Though any example that explains one of the three affluence points I brought up before should be fine.

edited 17th Oct '15 8:28:39 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Ok in looking around for examples I have found, we probably do need a less clothes they wear the more the arms are covered in gloves trope or a Zettai Ryouiki for exposing and focusing on the shoulders and upper chest. None of those who wear opera gloves really cover up the upper shoulder / chest area.

I am at 6 examples of it so far. the already mentioned Neptunia's Nepgear MK 2 outfit, Kan Colle's Shimakaze [1]◊, the image on Reluctant Fanservice Girl from To Love RU, Negima's second tournament arc Announcer, Ayaka's outfit during the festival Arc in Negima, the unnammed cat girl◊ in Negima which has so many costume tropes that its a meme, a Squishy Wizard [2]◊, This girl from SMT X Fire Emblem◊.

Also I am up to 5 thieves now with them on, one male. 4 girls from Aikatsu which look to be a kid friendly version of above◊ and the male from Negima .

edited 18th Oct '15 8:20:05 AM by Memers

Don't really follow what you are doing.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

@1119: Opera Gloves shouldn't be a redirect to High-Class Gloves, because not all opera gloves imply high class. It should either be cut entirely, or made into a disambig that lists all tropes related to the use of opera gloves in fiction.

We may need a crowner on what to do with the page, given the different ideas of what should be done.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

I was looking up the ones that I could find that were not High-Class Gloves and noticed a pattern of well Fanservice.

Emphasis on having outfits cover as much surface area as possible just not in the areas where you would expect, lots of surface area covered on arms but not upper chest areas, back, and shoulders. Basically calling attention to those areas and almost like have a quota of area that must be covered. the extreme version.◊

The 1920's opera glove fad looks to be the same reason, the current Opera Gloves image shows it extremely well.

there are a lot more◊.

It's very different that the basic Zettai Ryouiki but kinda the same attention calling concept. It is very much a trope, a very old one.

edited 18th Oct '15 2:22:20 PM by Memers