Is this an example?

edited 9th Jul '16 11:38:43 AM by sgamer82

Yeah.

On a more on-topic note, is Kavorka Man applicable when the character is obviously intended to come across as merely plain/average-looking rather than truly ugly? Example: Shinji Ikari, who usually ends up unwittingly attracting the romantic attentions of several girls (and occasionally one boy) in whichever installment of the franchise you see him in.

edited 9th Jul '16 11:45:21 AM by MarqFJA

Alright thanks. If nobody has any objections, I'll go ahead with the changes to the weapon-based one.

Still iffy about the first one because the page itself has examples of characters who just happen to have powers based on the element, whether they have a preference for it or not. Then again, Superman is not on the page.

edited 9th Jul '16 1:37:01 PM by supergod

Also could someone take a look at these examples from Wacky Raceland:

• Action Survivor: Their flashback tale makes it clear Luke and Blubber were this pre-racing. They survived the apocalypse as children and spent years fighting and surviving until well into their twenties in spite of being trapped in a world filled with monsters and cannibals and being dead drunk at least 90% of the time.

• All Germans Are Nazis: The Red Baron sings the praises of the Announcer by calling her an Aryan Goddess who is giving him a chance to create a new "Master Race".

• Always Save the Girl : Peter perfect as ever...this goes even worse for him than in the original since by the time he's trying to rescue Penny she's already gotten herself out of trouble...and to her exasperation she ends up having to save him instead. In a mythology gag the Ant Hill Mob offer to help when Penelope faces down a licentious mutant in the bar, although once she politely says she doesn't need any help they happily get on with their own fight.

Someone should also check out the Designated Villain example on its YMMV page.

• Designated Villain: Dick Dastardly points out that if he did in the first race we see that Penelope did, he'd be called a cheater. He's a pretty big asshole, though.

I haven't read the books, but the the trope doesn't attempt to explain how he's not really as bad as he's made out to be (which is a requirement, I think). The grammar is really poor as well.

edited 9th Jul '16 2:23:16 PM by supergod

A Kavorka Man needs to have negative traits so that the logical conclusion would be that they wouldn't be an attractive character. It's about having traits that are the opposite of attractive (rather than in the grey neutral and forgettable) that stands in contrast of the character's actual attractiveness as judged by the other characters.

edited 9th Jul '16 2:03:46 PM by AnotherDuck

Well, besides being plain-looking, Shinji is quite timid (barring rare moments of genuine boldness) and over-apologetic, among other negative symptoms of his psychological issues.

That said... Is there a trope for being a Chick Magnet despite being forgettable/average? I was so far under the impression that it would count for a Downplayed Trope form of Kavorka Man.

edited 9th Jul '16 6:06:14 PM by MarqFJA

Safehold is neither a Crapsack World or a False Utopia.

It isn't nearly negative enough for Crapsack World, and it isn't portrayed as theoretically a Utopia which is a necessary prerequisite for being a False Utopia.

If that were a trope, just about any harem MC would fit.

Being shy and polite aren't necessarily unattractive, though. But there's also that part about bending them to his will, which goes counter to that, and I don't think Shinji fits that.

Is there one where it might fit, you think, if not either of those two?

I see some of the examples on Adorably Precocious Child admitting that the character is arguably outside the typical age range for the trope by a few years (one such example is about a 14 year old), but still count as examples for such reasons as being the youngest character in their Cast Herd and being seen and treated as a "kid" by the considerably older herdmates.

Now the important question to be asked here is this: Is there an actual age range for Adorably Precocious Child that is more limited than "biologically not an adult"?

I'd say 13-14 is iffy, but debatable for being young enough (how many kids that age are that mature?). 15 or higher is definitely too old.

edited 11th Jul '16 4:32:47 PM by Karxrida

14 is not "barely started puberty" except in very unusual cases of human physiology.

I'd say the expectation of maturity is more important for the trope than how far into puberty they are. 13 or 14 is a fine cutoff age for that.

edited 11th Jul '16 4:35:30 PM by Karxrida

I want to know if one of the monologues in the Pokémon fanfic ''Dead Beat'' counts as a Despair Speech. The main character has had to stomach the fact that he caused his brother's Unwanted Revival, thus causing him to be Barred from the Afterlife, his own Sanity Slippage, his summoning of an Animalistic Abomination, being on the receiving end of an, admittedly accurate, Cassandra Did It, Cold-Blooded Torture, his own resurrection, and eventually the emptiness that remains in the Big Bad's wake, all because he wanted immortality that badly. He begins to ask himself "Was It Really Worth It?", and we finally get this from him (Now paraphrased!):

edited 13th Jul '16 9:29:18 AM by Blazer_the_Delphox

The following was added on a page I watch, and I am pretty sure it's not what the trope means, but don't want to delete the example just yet, just in case.

• Obfuscating Stupidity: Or naivete, at least. She is quite likely the most brilliant military strategist in the entire setting, and everyone who underestimates her ends up regretting it, if they even live to do so. She is apparently happy for people to continue to underestimate her, as it makes her life easier. However, we never actually see her internal monologue to confirm whether this is the case.

..now, I checked and Obfuscating Stupidity means playing dumb intentionally? Which the character in question doesn't, she just ignores people's opinion about her qualifications.

Kill it. There's a fine line between "allowing people to underestimate you" and "tricking people into underestimating you".

Of nothing else, without some kind of confirmation is speculation whether the trope applies.

Would examples of Compete for the Maiden's Hand automatically count as examples of Arranged Marriage? Or in other words, does Compete for the Maiden's Hand qualify as a subtrope of Arranged Marriage?

Deleted it, thanks for the help

edited 14th Jul '16 1:56:45 PM by Derkhan

I don't think so. Engagement Challenge is closer (and is the trope that the name "Compete for the Maiden's Hand" brings to mind), but even there, I don't think so.

Compete for the Maiden's Hand does not require the maiden to go along with the outcome. In modern versions of the trope, I think she may even get offended and reject all participants because they thought they could decide for her.

As for Engagement Challenge, that's closer, as I said. The classic version (king promises his daughter's hand to the man who slays the dragon) is definitely Arranged Marriage. But if the challenge is set by the maiden to a group of competitors she chose herself, simply because she can't decide between them, then not so much.

What is the exact definition of Counterpart Comparison? Because I have seen a lot of examples with characters that are not related at all. Case in point:

• Counterpart Comparison: Lex Luthor in this movie actually shares a lot of similarities with Varrick from The Legend of Korra. Both of them are eccentric businessmen who make deals with a major female character for what seems like an important reason, but is only for personal gain, both of them blow up an important building at some point, both of them have a Asian female assistant that is always cooperative and wears glasses, and both are imprisoned at the end of their respective first appearances, though Varrick escaped. On the other hand, Varrick never killed anybody or acted like he was intellectually superior to those that he faced, and he also ended up being redeemed by the end of the series.

So what you're saying is that Compete for the Maiden's Hand and/or Arranged Marriage are both subtropes of Engagement Challenge? Or did you mean that they simply overlap frequently, but not always?

FWIW, my question ties in to this Trope Finder query, the gist of which is "Town A has made arrangements with Town B so that each year Town A selects a number of its bachelors according to certain standards and sends to the nearby forest, where they are to be chased by bachelorettes from Town B (individually or in groups), on a 'first to catch gets undisputed marriage claim on the caught' basis, with the guys not really getting any say in who they get married to unless the man's captor(s) are sufficiently magnanimous to willingly let him go if he voices his aversion to marrying them."

No. Compete for the Maiden's Hand and Engagement Challenge are sibling tropes. Arranged Marriage is not actually related to either one, but frequently occurs in combination with Engagement Challenge.

(I think the word "Hand" in Compete for the Maiden's Hand is somewhat misleading. It's not actually a marriage trope. The most common form is that the winner gets to woo the "maiden." There's certainly no guarantees that her hand will be the reward for winning.)

As for that scenario, yeah, that's a bit tricky. I think Engagement Challenge fits, but I'm not sure it counts as an Arranged Marriage, since one partner does have a say in the matter. I'd suggest And Now You Must Marry Me, except that's a villain trope, so it also doesn't fit. Tropes Are Flexible, but I'm honestly not sure which, if either, would be best stretched to fit. I lean slightly towards calling it a "rare, non-villainous version of And Now You Must Marry Me," but I'm not sure. Maybe we can get a third opinion?

eta: It's possible that we have found a missing trope here. It's also possible that I simply haven't stumbled across the right one.

edited 16th Jul '16 12:46:24 PM by Xtifr

An Arranged Marriage can be done with one of the prospective spouses being quite willing, you know; there are more than enough examples of a villain securing an arranged marriage with a woman that does not want to marry him.

As for And Now You Must Marry Me... note that the trope's description refers the reader to Wikipedia's article on Forced Marriage for more in-depth information, so my impression is that the trope's name and description are currently written more strictly than they actually are. Yes, it's obvious that villains would naturally form a huge number of the trope's examples, but you don't have to be an outright villain to force someone to marry you; non-villainous Jerkasses do exist.

And yeah, we might be having another Missing Supertrope Syndrome case here.