Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
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This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
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If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
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NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
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Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
Bikini Bar is currently listed on the NRLEP list, but it has recently been merged with Family-Friendly Stripper, which is not. Should it just be replaced? Both tropes do cover the same ground (which is why they were merged to begin with, obviously).
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Zzzzzzzzzz
What was the reason on Bikini Bar?
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Bikini Bar is listed under "Sex,Sexuality and Rape Tropes" on No Real Life Examples, Please!
Why don't we just add all three of those indexes to the page (along with Morality Tropes)? Seems easier than just cutting them piecemeal when we can just have a blanket ban instead (which the NRLEP page seems to imply anyway with its folder titles.)
Zzzzzzzzzz
^^ That's the category of trope it is. What was problematic about the Real Life section? As I recall just being a sexuality trope isn't enough to merit NRLEP.
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Part of the trope is that it's about characters having sex/stripteases and the Real World equivalent of those bars (Hooters comes to mind) is not about having sex, just fanservice.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
No, the other one.
It's specifically about making something more family friendly. I don't see how that's problematic in itself.
I'd have more problem with that something like that in real life is probably meant to be like that, which isn't what the trope is about. It's about it representing something that's less family friendly.
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If that's the case, it makes me wonder why the two tropes were merged, since the other thing seems like it was a trope as well. Not that I really mind losing fanservice-related pages, but still.
No, the other one.
They were merged because there were no significant difference to them. And fanservice tropes are just as worthy as tropes as any other tropes.
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Oversized Garden Ornament
I suppose the reason sexuality tropes often are NRLEP is that their real-life sections tend to attract a lot of gossip ("real-life celeb X did sexual act Y") and general creepiness, but I don't think there's much risk for that here (since the subject is, by definition, very sexually toned-down).
I do see the same problem as Another Duck mentions: since the phenomenon seems to be quite rare in real life, there will probably be a lot of shoehorning. Take Hooters which was brought up earlier in the thread: Hooters is not an example, since it's a normal restaurant with a fanservice theme; it's not a strip bar and the waitresses aren't strippers even if their dress code is stripperiffic.
But I don't think the risk for shoehorning is reason enough to make it NRLEP. Does the trope have a history of problems with the real life section, perhaps?
RE: Bikini Bar
I just looked back into the history on the page to where each item had an actual reason, and not a categorization.... "would attract gushing" is what was listed. It predates the version in Administrivia.
Going to the old version in the Main namespace, it was added on 12 Apr 2012 by Stewyworks 333 in a long list of sex related tropes. No edit reason, no specific reason for individual entires either. That, btw, predates this thread by 9 days.
Reason added as "No." on 26 Nov 2012 by 122122
Changed to "would attract creepy gushing" on 27 Nov 2012 by Renelia
Changed to "would attract gushing" on 5 Jan 2013 by PF.
edited 1st Dec '16 2:44:37 AM by Zyffyr
Again, I think part of the issue here is that Bikini Bar and Family-Friendly Stripper are not the same thing and shouldn't have been merged. The latter's specifically about censorship or toning things down, but the former can exist separately of that. I'd argue that neither should have real life examples, but it's because of the tendency for skeeviness (the same reason I'm not really going to object to the merge going through); the narrative/production aspect is only present for one of the two concepts.
No, the other one.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think "would attract gushing" sounds like it's an assumption rather than an experience of that actually happening. That kind of gushing is less of a problem nowdays, though.
Tropes were defined and used very similarly. Regardless, problems with the merge should be brought up in that TRS thread, not in this one.
Oversized Garden Ornament
Yes, I think that in general, we should wait until we see that a real-life section really does attract gushing before we cut it, especially with innocous tropes like these.
How sweet it is
Calling Overshadowed by Controversy in favor of keeping RL examples.
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Mistaken for Racist? Seems like an author's intent trope, or at least in the same general category. In fiction we can assume the author knows what was in the person's heart; in real life we only have Lamont Cranston.
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No, the other one.
I don't think it requires intent. Quite the opposite, as it's a mistake trope. Those can happen in real life.
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Zzzzzzzzzz
Looking at the current reallife section, I don't see any real problems. Most of them are really well written, explaining what was said/done and what the error was.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Sorcerer in training
Re: Bikini Bar/Family Friendly Stripper.
I think that a trope never having a review and just being added to NRLEP is a good enough reason to review it -especially if it was a unilateral decision.
To me, it happening before the thread's existence is an extra impetus, to make sure all is done well. Not reviewing the past is too often a mistake, even if there isn't any fallout.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Digging further into Bikini Bar... our on site history ends on 2013... On the Wayback Machine, the only RL entires around the time of its listing were :
- While they're not strip bars, all beach bars have the bikini outfit as standard for crew and patrons by definition.
- There's also a sports bars and grill by the name of Bikinis where the waitresses wear, well, bikinis. They do wear short shorts over the bikini bottoms, but they are VERY short shorts.
- New Jersey zoning laws have split "gentlemen's clubs" into go-go/bikini bars where alcohol can be served, and fully-nude "juice bars" without liquor licenses. So in the Garden State, you can get beer OR boobs with your lap dance, but not both.
- Florida has this law too.
Those remain unchanged until 22 Dec 2015, when Doctor Cooper noticed that there were RL examples on the page still and killed them.
On 25 Dec 2015 lorgskyegon put in a "This is Truth in Television" RL entry, which Doctor Cooper removed on 22 Jan 2016.
I am not seeing any genuine reason for it to have ever been listed in the first place, and as such I think that instead of adding Family-Friendly Stripper to the list, it would make more sense to drop the Bikini Bar listing.
Should Jewish Mother be added to the list? All the other Jewish stereotypes (Jewish Complaining, Jews Love to Argue, Greedy Jew, etc) are there, so this one seems like a no-brainer to me. Also looking sideways at the supertrope My Beloved Smother.
No, the other one.
Yeah, stereotype character tropes aren't what we want real life examples of.
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Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
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