Duplicate Trope: The Ishmael

We need to see some progress here. Would someone like to make up a new page action crowner?

Basically what I'm proposing is a rename and example cleanup for this one trope. Can we just have a single issue crowner on doing that, or are there other options that absolutely must be included?

We can do a single prop on that. If it gets shot down, we can consider other options.

Crowner here.

The way the trope is generally used on the wiki, you might as well just create a new trope for the narration and use The Ishmael for the characters. That makes me very leery of a significant redefinition and cleanup; it will erase a lot of usage as a character trope; even if you turned the 'character' references into Supporting Protagonist, it wouldn't quite fit.

If we change The Ishmael to be a narration trope about First Person Peripheral Narration, sooner or later, someone will YKTTW a trope for First Person Peripheral Narrator, for the character who is used for this, and then they'll have to gather the examples again.

If the rename goes through, I plan on putting both narrator and narration up up new name options. Either way, a proper example description would mention which character is doing the narration.

edited 1st May '12 5:58:36 AM by Catbert

Calling crowner. Time to rename.

Do we need an alterante titles crowner or can we just go straight to the "official" name that I described here?

edited 15th May '12 9:49:05 AM by Catbert

Well, if that's the official term for it, then we should definitely use that.

Crowners swapped out.

First-Person Peripheral Narrator is clunky. I can't come up with anything better, though. It should be a redirect, but I'm ot thrilled with it as the main name.

Bump for votes or name suggestions.

Calling crowner.

The wicks and examples need to be cleaned up. Fortuantly there aren't many of them, but I'm not familiar with many of the shows so it may be hard to tell what examples are good.

The main thing is that if the character is not a first person narrator, the character is clearly not an example. Many of the mediums with examples (TV, movies, videogames) usually don't have any type of narrator, but that is by no means always the case.

I'll do what I can but I would like some help.

Could someone that knows something about videogames tell me if any i of following videogames do in fact have a first person narrator? Please note that being the POV Character or the Player Character is not the same thing as being a narrator.

• VideoGame.Assassins Creed
• VideoGame.Blood
• VideoGame.Deadly Creatures
• Characters.Diablo
• Characters.Final Fantasy Type-0
• VideoGame.Final Fantasy Type-0
• Characters.Final Fantasy VIII
• Characters.Final Fantasy X
• VideoGame.Final Fantasy X
• Characters.Final Fantasy XII
• VideoGame.Mario And Luigi Bowsers Inside Story
• VideoGame.Modern Warfare
• VideoGame.Silent Hill 4
• Characters.Silent Hill 4
• Characters.Silent Hill Origins
• Characters.The Legend Of Zelda Majoras Mask
• Characters.The Legend Of Zelda Twilight Princess
• VideoGame.The Legend Of Zelda Twilight Princess
• VideoGame.Twelve Thirteen
• VideoGame.Valkyria Chronicles

edited 6th Jun '12 9:30:19 AM by Catbert

Final Fantasy X has a first person narrator. Most of the story is told in a big flashback. Said person is the main character.

Final Fantasy VIII...the main character is the only person whose thoughts we get to hear, but I'm not quite sure I'd call it a narrator.

Final Fantasy XII has the narrator reading the thoughts of a person as recorded in his memories regarding some historical findings, so I'd say yes.

Diablo 2 does have a narrator. Valkyria Chronicles has a Framing Device (revealed in the ending) that implies one character was narrating it (and the lack of actual narration is presumably Deep Immersion Storytelling).

I imagine being a POV Character is more important than being a narrator specifically, though, right? Otherwise all the Literature examples would only count if they're first-person.

edited 6th Jun '12 9:41:06 AM by troacctid

Examples only count if they are first person narrators, no matter what medium. I'm just highlighting the videogame ones right now because I'm not current on videogames and I tend to assume videogames rarely have a proper narrator.

edited 6th Jun '12 12:00:22 PM by Catbert

^ Meaning that the narrator is known from the outset to be a character in the setting, yes. Cases where the narrator is only retrospectively revealed to have been a character in the setting do not necessarily count, because without The Reveal they are indistinguishable from an ordinary narrator.

I've added the notes on Renamed Tropes and the FAQ thread, and there aren't any change-worthy wicks anymore. Can we close this? If there are more doubtful examples, the discussion pages are better venues to fix them.