Awful name: New Crowner 10/24/11: Dropped A Bridget On Him

Not quite. Its not a supermajority, and we're still figuring out what all these tropes are. We're sort of ignoring the crowner (but not invalidating it) until we get that ironed out.

Here's what we're at. Any disagreement?

• Dropped A Bridget On Him: One character gets shocked by another character's true gender, whether they like the new gender or not.
  • Sweet on Polly Oliver: Character is attracted to a character they shouldn't be (because of their sexual orientation), only to find out they were wrong about the second character's gender.
• Twelfth Night Adventure: A plot revolving around a character masquerading as the opposite gender, often to protect themselves.
  • Sweet Polly Oliver: Girl dresses up like a man to accomplish some goal. Does not necessarily include a reveal.
• Samus Is a Girl: Can be a subtrope of either Gender Reveal or Viewer Gender Confusion. The point is that people (either in-universe or out) thought a girl was a man because "he" was a Badass.

Edited to reflect that.

edited 7th Sep '11 3:28:26 PM by Discar

That all looks right to me except that if that's the definition we're using for Twelfth Night Adventure it should be a supertrope of Sweet Polly Oliver, not the other way around.

Isn't Its A Trope all over the internet as Star Wars meme? I don't think I've ever seen Its A Trap used in the context of Dropped A Bridget On Him.

Yes it is used that way, but "trap" is a derogatory term for a transwoman, so some people advocate that name and think they're being clever.

edited 7th Sep '11 3:38:48 PM by BooleanEarth

@301 Add Disguised in Drag under Twelfth Night Adventure and that seems correct to me.

edited 7th Sep '11 6:48:43 PM by 20LogRoot10

Edit: disregard that, I suck cocks.

edited 7th Sep '11 6:54:42 PM by BooleanEarth

Twelfth Night Adventure is specifically when the character is a stranger in a strange land and they need to blend in, but can't as their own gender because the society has very strict rules about genders doing different things. Like travelling.

edited 7th Sep '11 6:55:02 PM by shimaspawn

Yeah, I got that about twenty seconds after I asked. I am just stupid is all. It also seems that Disguised in Drag is Always Male.

Disguised in Drag (man disguises himself as a woman in order to accomplish something) is the Distaff Counterpart to Sweet Polly Oliver, so I agree that it should also be on that list. But I think the definitions are good.

But I have discovered Harmless Lady Disguise, which seems to be the same thing as Disguised in Drag, just with a little more focus on the Double Standard involved.

Harmless Lady Disguise only has 13 wicks (!); Disguised in Drag has 273. My personal inclination would be to start a TRS to see about merging the two.

But as we're discussing these sorts of tropes here and now, I figured I'd bring it up here and see what other people think first.

Whoever said that 1.58 : 1 is not a supermajority should probably look up the definition of "supermajority" on That Other Wiki.

Our definition is 2:1.

We get admin fiat over at Kuudere but not where it is actually needed which is here .

Anyway was there ever a wick check for non-in-universe character reaction misuse?

Sweet on Polly Oliver and Sweet Polly Oliver are different tropes, right? So the former should be renamed if they are.

As for Bridget, Its A Trap is most definitely not going to be the new name given the last time an out-of-context line from Star Wars got used as a trope name. While I know I said this on the last page, and Do Not Want (now redlinked, as you can see) was a Recursive Translation, out-of-context quotes do not make good trope names.

Sweet on Polly Oliver is a subplot of Sweet Polly Oliver. It requires a Sweet Polly Oliver plot and then having another character to be sweet on them.

Except that it seems we've agreed (or there's been no objections, at any rate) the Sweet on Polly Oliver should be gender neutral, which would suggest that it should probably be renamed.

That would take a complete definition rewrite as it's currently about a very specific situation. Also, all the examples would need to be rewritten.

A lot of these tropes are for one gender only, Sweet on Polly Oliver included. They are named accordingly and have been used this way for a long time. It seems like it would be easier and less destructive to existing tropes (to me, at least) just to make sure that every Spear Counterpart has a Distaff Counterpart and vice versa rather than doing what you suggest.

This. Especially since the tropes play out completely different depending on the genders involved. They can't really be made unisex.

Then I say we definitely need that Gender Reveal supertrope (or sliding scale?) to explain all the relationships between this stuff.

Bifauxnen, Samus Is a Girl, Viewer Gender Confusion, and Dude Looks Like a Lady (and possible Bishōnen) would probably be mentioned on there, too. Also maybe Gender Bending.

Gender Bending is actually unrelated. Gender Bending involves physical changes in sex through magic or technology; these tropes are about dressing in drag for disguise, social reasons, or sexual purposes. It could maybe be mentioned as a contrast with the supertrope (if that's what we're doing), but they really don't need to be involved in this.

I'm not familiar enough with the Bifauxnen and Bishōnen tropes to know if they belong.

Bishounen is the Pretty Boy (right now it covers a broad western and eastern pretty boy including the Gruff the hunk Aragorn type...) the traditional Bishounen is the tall, pretty, beautiful guy type that seems to Bishie Sparkle, Love Bubbles, Love Flowers, or all of the above (Overkill) when the camera turns to them, may fall under Dude Looks Like a Lady but not always. They get Fan Girls and Fan Clubs by the truck load. Think the elves in Lord Of The Rings. (as a general example)

Bifauxnen is a girl while dressed up in a suit looks like a Bishounen and is treated as such by girls (and sometimes guys). It does not require Sweet Polly Oliver (it can happen) and sometimes girls might Dropped A Bridget On Her most know and don't care a bit.

edited 10th Sep '11 12:38:38 AM by Raso

Okay. With that in mind let's try this again.

It seems we'll need an index for this, whatever else we do (oh boy! New index). We've got three supertropes really, all of which are related: Crossdressing Plot, Gender Reveal, and Pushing The Gender Barrier (these are terrible names, I'm just using them for clarity). I'll use a D for Distaff Counterpart and an S for Spear Counterpart (N is neutral). Without further ado, I present to you the grand Genderscrew^TM Tropes taxonomy:

• Crossdressing Plot (N)
  • Wholesome Crossdresser (N) & Creepy Crossdresser (N)
  • Recursive Crossdressing (N)
  • Twelfth Night Adventure (N)
  • Sweet Polly Oliver (D)
  • Disguised in Drag (S)
    • Harmless Lady Disguise (S)
• Gender Reveal (N)
  • Viewer Gender Confusion (N)
  • Dropped A Bridget On Him (S)
  • Sweet on Polly Oliver (D)
  • Samus Is a Girl (D)
• Pushing The Gender Barrier (N)
  • Dude Looks Like a Lady (S)
  • Bifauxnen (D)
  • Bishōnen (S)
  • Ambiguous Gender (N)

Ugh...you know what? I think I just broke my brain making that. Please feel free to edit, correct, or comment on that. I'm going to go do something else for a little while.

edited 10th Sep '11 10:34:14 PM by BooleanEarth

You forgot Sweet on Polly Oliver, which probably goes under Dropped A Bridget On Him. Or Twelfth Night Adventure/Sweet Polly Oliver. Or both?

And I feel that there should probably be a Spear Counterpart for Sweet on Polly Oliver. But I'll hold off putting that through YKTTW until we've got what we have sorted out.

And this YKTTW would also go under Gender Reveal.

Twelfth Night Adventure is a senario that can occur in the three tropes under it, but does not occur in the majority of instances of those tropes. It's not a supertrope. It's just a subplot.

I can't believe I forgot Sweet on Polly Oliver. I told you guys I broke my brain. Anyway, I added it. Also: Dropped A Bridget On Him is (sort of) the Spear Counterpart for Sweet on Polly Oliver. They're not equivalent, but they both involve a character being attracted to someone only for it to be revealed that the object of their affection is the opposite gender from the one they thought. The reason they're not equivalent is because in Sweet on Polly Oliver the attraction is thought to be homosexual but is actually heterosexual, but in Dropped A Bridget On Him it's thought to be heterosexual but is actually (according to the character, although this has massive Unfortunate Implications) homosexual. At least, that's my understanding.

I was using Discar's definition of Twelfth Night Adventure as "A plot revolving around a character masquerading as the opposite gender, often to protect themselves." If we're using the currently outlined definition of the trope then yes, it's not a supertrope of the other tropes under Crossdressing Plot.