Misuse : Boy Meets Ghoul

Judging by the name, the most likely trope I would say is on the page would be: a character meets another character that they fall in love with, and the second character is a supernatural creature/alien/whatever. Possibly a genre. I kept this gender neutral though.

Is that not what's on the page?

If most of the wicks are from horror series, it sounds like we have substantial disuse which I seem to remember is equal to misuse as a reason for renaming. And, yes, I'd agree that the title sounds too specific.

Looks like it's being used as a beginning Trope, boy meets X for Interspecies Romance, most of the examples don't even seem to follow the "falls in love with her, is reciprocated, until The Reveal" formula, I see quite a lot of boy meets a girl, girl is revealed to not be human shortly after, boy still builds a close relationship with her which may one day become an Interspecies Romance, usually in the middle or by the end of the story.

Other than the Mass Effect examples I'm not sure, can someone show what the misuse looks like or has it already been cleaned? Too many Vampires?

Other than that I'd either expand the description to match the examples or soft spilt like:

• Boy meets girl, falls in love with her, is reciprocated, until The Reveal then ???
• Boy meets girl, The Reveal, boy starts Interspecies Friendship which might become Interspecies Romance.

Not sure about the name, popularity seem to be vampires followed by Demons then Aliens. The confusing mixed examples seem like a bigger issue.

edited 19th Aug '11 6:42:10 AM by No9

Maybe the trope was written to specifically. That happens a lot because the creator was building around a single/few example.

Non-Human Lover Reveal or Nonhuman Love Interest Reveal for redirects? It's supposed to be a Beginning Trope, rather than a form of The Reveal, but in serial works I could see it starting at almost any point in the work as a whole, especially if it's a subplot rather than the main plot.

This trope can start just general Interspecies Romance, but it's a specific situation that happens a lot on that sort of relationship which makes it a trope in and of itself. It's basically a related plot trope to Interspecies Romance.

edited 19th Aug '11 9:24:36 AM by shimaspawn

I cleaned up the page a bit. I only took out examples if I knew the work, or if the example's description made it clear that it didn't fit (e.g. two supernatural beings of the same kind, or cases where they must have known from the beginning - I doubt anyone would fail to notice if their girlfriend were a catgirl, for instance).

You would be surprised what can be hidden. Catgirl, depending on the type is just a matter of wearing a hat and hiding the tail under a long skirt. And that doesn't even count examples where they could be a shapeshifter.

edited 19th Aug '11 9:48:06 AM by shimaspawn

Been away from this one for a while - what's the current situation?

And I will do those wick checks in a bit.

Starting at the top and skipping intermittently down the list:

• Three By Three Eyes: "more like Girl Meets Boy And Makes Him Ghoul": misuse.
• A Boy and His X: just romantic: misuse.
• Battlemamono: just romantic: misuse.
• Being Human: no reveal occurs: misuse.
• Bloodsucking Fiends: X Just X (undead is implied by title): unclear.
• Casper: just romance + undead: misuse.
• Choice Of Games: mentions vampires, otherwise X Just X: unclear.
• Christopher Moore: appears to be taken literally, romance + ghouls: misuse.
• Chrono Crusade: Interspecies Romance: misuse.
• Crappy Vamps Vs Werewolves Epic: X Just X, but it's a Twilight parody so probable misuse.
• Dead Gorgeous: X Just X, but from the context, may be correct. Undead example, though: limited, correct.
• Dept Heaven Apocrypha: mentions romance + undead: unclear.
• Did You Just Romance Cthulhu?: calls itself a subtrope, which it's not: misuse.
• Ghost Shipping: says "compare" along with an accurate description: correct
• Hellsing: potholed, not sure, but it's just listed as Interspecies Romance with undead. Ghouls are mentioned a lot on the page. I suspect this is misuse, but I'll call it: unclear.
• I Love the Dead: explicitly claims it's just romance+undead: misuse.
• Its Always Time: X Just X, but from context, it's just Interspecies Romance: misuse.
• Jeremy Messersmith: just mentions romance+undead, but it's a little unclear: probable misuse.
• Kumiko The Demon Girl: romance+undead: misuse.
• League Of Legends QZ: romance+undead, the description makes it sound like no secrets were involved: probable misuse.
• Let The Right One In: X Just X (but I know this one), another undead example: unclear, limited but correct.
• Love Redeems: potholed to "love for a human": misuse.
• Madman: mentions initial shock, but involves undead: limited, correct.
• Magical Girlfriend: just mentions "may overlap": unclear/correct.
• Meet Cute: example mentions Hellsing, lists names but not circumstances: unclear.
• Mermaid Melody Pichi Pichi Pitch: just says, "inverted, subverted and played straight". Not every clear, but I'll give this the benefit of the doubt and call it: correct.
• My Girlfriend Is A Nine Tailed Fox: "freed from a painting of a nine-tailed fox" does not sound like there was any reveal after the romance (but at least it's not undead): probable misuse.
• My Lovely Ghost Kana: can't find it, but if it was here, it was misuse for undead+romance, as there's no reveal.
• My X Is AY: "My S.O. is a monster.": misuse.
• Night Gallery: just says, "several examples", unclear, but given the nature of the show, I'm inclined to call this: correct.
• Omamori Himari: sounds like it's being misused for Interspecies Romance, but it's vague and: unclear.
• Ow My Sanity: not sure, but it sounds like just Interspecies Romance: unclear.
• Paladin}: X Just X, nothing obvious from context: unclear.
• Portal Breach: not sure, but it sounds like just undead+romance: unclear.
• Puzzle Quest: "the girl to whom he was engaged has been turned into an undead monster": probable misuse.
• Resurrected Romance: "Compare to" describes it as romance+monster, no mention of reveal: misuse.
• Robosexual: no details, just says compare. unclear/correct.
• Romantic Comedy: potholed to "boy meets devil": misuse.
• Rusty and Co.: just romance+undead: misuse.
• Sankarea: example is X Just X, but the description of the work makes it clear that there's no reveal: misuse.
• Shapeshifting Lover: another just "see also": unclear/correct.
• Ship Tease: Hellsing again, this time strongly suggesting it's just romance+undead: misuse.
• Spirited Away: romance+spirit, vague, but I know the work: misuse.
• Splash: a little vague, but I know the work: correct.
• Synergy: at an "All-Ghouls School", this looks like obvious: misuse.
• Tanz Der Vampire: romance+undead: misuse.
• The Alien Series: no mention of the reveal, but I'll call this: unclear.
• The Dating Guy: werewolf (horror), no mention of the reveal, but: unclear.
• The Last Apprentice: "subverted because they both have a non-human parent". No mention of a reveal. Gah! I reluctantly call this: unclear.
• The Last Vampire: just romance+undead: misuse.
• The Monster Girl Encyclopedia: romance+monsters: misuse.
• The Sky Tides: X Just X plus a pair of names: unclear.
• The Twins Effect: undead+romance: misuse.
• The White Stripes: song title includes the word "ghost": limited, unclear.
• True Blood: undead+romance: misuse.
• Understanding Boyfriend: a little vague, but pretty much: correct.
• Unsounded: associated with Ghost Shipping, not even in the story, undead+romance+fanreaction: misuse + gah!
• Woman Scorned: not very clear, but the example seems to be from the monster's POV, and doesn't mention any reveal: unclear (probably misuse).
• Zombie Roadkill: pretty clearly no reveal, just undead+romance: misuse.

{ETA: 59 wicks checked. 32 clear misuse (54%), 16 unclear (27%), 11 clearly correct (18%)}

edited 19th Aug '11 2:11:25 PM by Madrugada

And here we go - the bottom 20 wicks.

• The Dating Guy - X Just X
• The Deaths Of Ian Stone - X Just X (context suggests it's correct)
• Characters/The Descended - Misuse (apparently as Exactly What It Says on the Tin)
• The Last Apprentice - X Just X (context suggests it's misuse)
• The Last Vampire - X Just X
• The Man Who Fell To Earth - Correct
• The Monster Girl Encyclopedia - Misuse (Interspecies Romance)
• Fan Fic/The Prince Of Death - X Just X (context suggests it's misuse)
• The Sky Tides - X Just X
• The Strangely Beautiful Series - Misuse (romance with a ghost)
• The Twins Effect - Misuse (romance with a vampire)
• The White Stripes - X Just X
• Characters/True Blood - Misuse (romance with a vampire)
• Understanding Boyfriend - Appears to be Correct
• Unsounded - Misuse (romance with the undead)
• Urban Dead - Unclear, but almost certainly Misuse
• Troper Works/Warcraft Dressing - (Page moved to roleplay) - X Just X
• Woman Scorned - Unclear but nothing in the example suggests that either character was unaware of the other's nature.
• So You Want To/Write A Yuri Manga - Misuse (Interspecies Romance)
• Zombie Roadkill - Misuse (romance with a zombie)

Even without all the probably-wrong X Just X examples, that's a 40% misuse rate. Moreover, there's only two unambiguously correct uses. This strongly supports the idea that we may need to do a Trope Transplant to "romance with the undead".

Edit: Ack! Didn't know someone else was doing this. Looks like we got the same results, though, and that's a lot of misuse.

{ETA: 20 wicks checked:

• 9 clearly incorrect (45%);
• 3 where it's not clear, but context suggests incorrect (15%);
• 5 unclear, or X Just X (25%);
• 2 where it's not clear, but context suggests that it's correct (10%);
• 1 clearly correct (5%).

Misused or context suggests misuse = 60%. Correct or context suggests probably correct = 15%.}

edited 19th Aug '11 2:25:01 PM by Madrugada

A trope transplant is an excellent suggestion (was just going to mention that myself).

Trope transplant to "living person has a romance with an undead" looks like a good move. I've added it to the crowner

Should it be undead, or monsters in general? Monsters in general would cover more of the misuse and X Just X examples, but might be too broad.

It's not showing up.

"Monsters in general" is too vague. I think if we tighten up the definition some, it should help matters.

Meanwhile, what about the trope this was supposed to be? I haven't really seen any name suggestions for it, and nothing comes to mind.

edited 19th Aug '11 2:10:20 PM by nrjxll

That's because I haven't added it yet.

The laconic actually describes the trope (was fixed because of this thread):

Boy Meets Girl-he-thinks-is-human-but-turns-out-not-to-be.

(Could be girl meets boy too, but Tropes Are Flexible.)

I suggested Fantastic Romantic Reveal earlier. May not be perfect, but might help spark some ideas.

edited 19th Aug '11 2:16:14 PM by Xtifr

I think having it be the undead specific subtrope of interspecies romance and transplanting the definition elsewhere would probably be a good move for this trope. The cleaned up definition stressing that it's about undead will probably help keep the misuse for random monsters down.

New option has been added to the crowner, thread title changed to note that the crowner has changed. Hopefully some more of those 32 people who voted on the "rename only" will come back by to check.

edited 19th Aug '11 2:32:25 PM by Madrugada

How about I Love Tomatoes for the old trope, by analogy with Tomato Surprise?

Ow! No, this is not...ouch!...a serious...Ow!...suggestion. OUCH! Stop HITTING ME!

Actually, Romantic Tomato Surprise could be a real possibility here. But I've always thought Tomato Surprise wasn't a great name, so snowcloning it isn't something I would personally favor. Plus it sounds more general then it is.

Tomato Surprise is when the audience doesn't know something, not the characters. I suspect most examples of a Secretly Nonhuman Lover are known to the audience. It's only the characters (or, at least one important character) who doesn't know.

I thought Tomato Surprise could be either way on the characters' knowledge. And I'm pretty sure this trope can come as a surprise to the audience as well.

Characters don't matter with Tomato Surprise. Audience doesn't matter with Secretly Nonhuman Lover. Could be both in both cases, but the emphasis is completely different, and the cases that aren't both are completely disjunct.

edited 19th Aug '11 5:31:09 PM by Xtifr