Balancing Author Appeal, Fan Service and Fetish Fuel in a series.

Okay, so I tried to post this before, but it didn't work so I'm trying again.

I wrote a series (best described as quickly Code Geass meets Darker Than Black meets Fantasy Kitchen Sink) and I am trying actively to get it made profesionally, since I know animators and they are teaching me how to pitch it. Also, I can write scripts.

But I have a problem. I am not sure how to balance all the forms of Fanservice. I think I did it well, but I wanted to check with some tropers before I proceed. Basically, I tried to restain most of the Fanservice to the comedy episodes to make the serious eps, well serious.

However, after talking to some friends, virtually all my characters (and there are loads and loads of characters) are Fetish Fuel Station Attendants. Also, there is some Author Appeal in the form of one character in the second and third seasons, who fortunately is not a Mary Sue according to the Litmus Test and my Author Appeal pops up in one first season episode briefly and is made fun of.

The fan service is for a lot of tastes though (guys get Shirtless Scenes on occasion, girls get kinky outfits (maids, bunnies, etc.) on occasion, lots of different types of Fetish Fuel, Ho Yay, Les Yay and Foe Yay... and my character designer is a genius at drawing this sort of stuff).

So my question is, if I have all of that above stuff but mainly in the comic relief episodes and not the serious ones, is that okay? I don't want the show to turn into Rule 34: The Series.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to control Fanservice, author appeal and fetish fuel in their writings so it doesn't become a Rule 34 themed series and does anyone think my plan of limiting it to comic relief episodes mainly is a good one?

It happens often enough elsewhere so why not.

What are your characters like? I mean are they like Hot Librarians and Hot Scientists or Mr. Fanservice? Are there gratuitous Panty Shots and excess boobage going around? For me, I've been struggling with this for years so I just said, "To hell with it!" and made my main character Ms. Fanservice incarnate and a total Canon Sue because I never really found "realistic" characters all that inspiring. So in the end, I made the Fanservice actually make sense with their characters, like my resident hard rock lesbian mad scientist has a Bifauxnen for a girlfriend.

(to Sand Josieph) They're deconstructions of anything I can find in fiction that I usually like. So deconstructions of the various types of Anti Heroes for example. It's a morally grey (Sometimes Black and Grey) series. The characters range from Badass Normals to Demigoddesses to superhuman spies to pretty much anything. My Author Appeal character in the second season and third season is a literal Hot Amazon. The characters are kind of Ninja Pirate Zombie Robots. For example, the Hot Amazon is a Bi the Way Girls with Guns Hot Amazon played for deconstruction and being a Badass.

In terms of Fanservice, the Panty Shots and such are usually only in the comic relief eps but the characters are often attractive even without the "service". My designer did Bishōnen and Bishoujo designs, for example.

(to Edmania) I'm confused to what you mean by your comment. Do you mean that the three tropes I mentioned in the discussion title happen often so why not? Or do you mean my method of controlling them happens often so why not?

edited 9th Dec '10 7:03:16 PM by darkclaw

For Fanservice I find there is a simple rule: for every naked/near naked scene a girl gets, give one for a guy.

If you're anything like me, this will proably stop the fancervice from being too blatant.

If you're not like me, this will either result in no fanservice, or everyone running around naked all the time.

RE title: Equal opportunity fanservice and fetish fuel is the way to go. As for author appeal, admit to it if asked but try not to overdo things.

Another alternative is to, y'know, play everything for horror. Or laughs.

edited 11th Dec '10 11:07:12 PM by Slan

To doorhandle: Yeah, I agree with you on that rule. I talked to some of my female friends and did some research, so I'm trying to incorporate fan service for all tastes. For example, in one script I finished, I gave the main (male) character a shirtless scene and later I had some cute girls in fetish outfits. To balance that, I put in some Foe Yay between the main male lead and his first male "nemesis" (due to Grey-and-Gray Morality...it's complicated). However, there was also some subtext between my main character and a female badass CIA agent, though they were bickering a lot too. Does that sound like a good balance?

By the way, the below paragraphs talk about my Author Appeal, muscle growth. If you are squicked by that, I apologize. I promise no details or anything though.

To Slan: I agree with equal opportunity Fanservice, but how do you balance Fetish Fuel since there are so many fetishes? Or do you mean balance it between male and female characters?

Regardless, I already have a ton of Fetish Fuel Station Attendants, male and female. Also, there is a lot of Fetish Fuel material for characters, regardless of gender...mind control, transformations (of all kinds, but usually Magical Girl type...though with male characters too), muscle growth, Ho Yay/Les Yay/Foe Yay, Girls with Guns, one male character and one female character both have harems...the list goes on.

Sometimes the Fetish Fuel and Fanservice is played straight, sometimes deconstructed (though not to Neon Genesis Evangelion levels, If You Know What I Mean) and sometimes just plain old lampshaded. It is also often played for laughs, too.

As for Author Appeal, I tried to limit it to the one recurring character aforementioned in the conversation (a Hot Amazon, emphasis on "hot" despite her muscles being like She Hulk's, lol...though justified since she's a literal Amazon and her muscles grow MUCH faster than a human's plus they have superhuman strength). The Mary Sue Litmus Test gave her a 20, so she's not a Sue, fortunately. That said, she does sleep with the main character at one point...so yeah, she has some elements of a Sue. On the other hand, the main character has been with a mermaid, princess and a shape-shifter before that point...and the Amazonian romance does not end well (though due to outside forces screwing over the Battle Couple). Other than her, there's only two other instances of muscle growth in the entire series.

One first season episode has a pair of Siblings in Crime assassins, who invert the Guys Smash, Girls Shoot trope. The guy is lean and uses superhuman agility and speed as well as guns. The girl can grow taller, buffer and gain superhuman strength and uses a giant hammer. They both are beaten easily by being tossed out a window...dozens of stories above ground. Though they don't find any trace of a body, I haven't brought them back (and I planned all three seasons out...though I recently added three new characters, because I had a lot of spare room in the third season after cutting and condensing the story). The other time was when parasitic aliens invaded for one episode, and when someone was infected, their hair turned white and they gained golden eyes and muscle. However, it was played for horror...they (the aliens) are a race of warriors who merge with other beings to control them and make them fight to the death for amusement, while creating more aliens inside them to spread to more people. Their Weaksauce Weakness got them defeated and the people cured though.

I blatantly admit to my Author Appeal all the time, I'm not ashamed...but in the professional world, I don't think I'll bring it up too often. Though I might, since I want to still be like any other fan...you know, just the creator of the series though. Then again, I'm putting the cart ahead of the horse at this point.

Despite all of this, and there's a LOT more random stuff in the series, I think it could work since most of it is played for deconstruction or parody/laughs. Basically, I tried to fit as many random tropes into 78 episodes and had a lot of fun, lol. Anyways, this is a REALLY long post...but do you think I overdid the Author Appeal?

Also, if anyone is interested about learning more about my series, I'm trying to keep spoilers on the down-low in case it's made, but if anyone wants to learn more, let me know and I'll make another thread for it.

Back on topic, however, any more suggestions after my little tell-all?

edited 12th Dec '10 1:09:15 AM by darkclaw

I wonder how I can balance my need for both humor and Nightmare Fuel in the same instance. I mean I've got one moment where a giant demon opens its eyes to show that it has a million smaller eyes and one character says, "20 bucks says it has 20/20 vision." Personally, I'd rather the moment be scary but the joke is just too irresistible.

Another challenge I find appealing is seeing how funny characters play along with serious characters. It's a strange form of Author Appeal.

I think the 20/20 joke is hilarious. Though if you want the moment to be Nightmare Fuel...use Mood Whiplash. Wait a moment for the joke to pass and the audience to laugh. Then have the demon open it's mouth to reveal tons of fangs and have it lick it's lips as it prepares to devour the heroes. For added High Octane Nightmare Fuel, they might notice the demon has a LOT of body parts in it's mouth. For back to humor, they could point out it still has bad breath. I find Mood Whiplash is a wonderful thing.

Also, juxtaposing serious and funny characters is awesome. It's hard to do, and if you can do it, more power to you.

Hope that helps :)

Hell it's not like anyone is paying you or anything. Don't worry about it, just get those kinks on the page. Go nuts.

edited 12th Dec '10 5:14:57 AM by joeyjojo

You have a point, but I'm trying to get the series profesionally made into an actual anime. If it gets made, I wouldn't want to squick out the audience with my kinks. Are the aforementioned kinks, especially the muscle growth, able to be incorporated in a mainstream work without disgusting others? ...Back in the day, I saw some muscle girls like Black Cat in Spider Man The Animated Series and they didn't squick me out...quite the opposite, lol. I hope I can get the same reaction out of the audience, or at least not bother them and they can still enjoy the story. And with all the other Fetish Fuels in the series, I might as well be Playing to the Fetishes.

edited 12th Dec '10 7:07:30 AM by darkclaw

All right then Joe Q. public is going to be hard to write for, he is a randy pervert of the most debase standards but is easily offended and can write a lot of strongly worded letters.

Yeah, the public is never easy to write for. You have to take into account that many people would see it and view it differently. I know my chances are minimal, but due to knowing animators, I REALLY want to break into the business. So I gotta be careful.

BTW, was "Joe Q" a reference to Joe Quesada?

Also, was "Joe Q. public" a reference to comics fans? I'm mainly writing this for comic and anime fans, so yeah.

edited 12th Dec '10 8:24:16 AM by darkclaw

Eh... no. Joe Q. is just an (admittedly archaic) expression for the public at large, the more modern equivalent would joe schmoe, joe Doe, Average Joe, Joe Sixpack, joe blow, sloppy joe, you know that sort of thing. I"m not sure if your a fan of Quesada but he tends not to have that many fans around here around here...

If your aiming squarely at comic book and anime nuts that you should have not much to worry about. They are to put it simply, not normal, and tend to have a lot more tolerance for a writer's otherwise out there personal sexually kinks. They are going to pick it up and poke fun at it on @Live Journal but, so be sure you can cope with with that.

Other than than just go for it.

Use Anime Anatomy to avoid having your series look like porn, preferably all the way.

Oh, and link me once you have the pilot up. I love shiny spotless breasts.

Or you can go with absolute audacity and make it like my "Joan's Bosom" which is essentially Fetish Fuel, Fanservice, and Author Appeal done with no regrets. It's a story where two twins (suffering from some serious psychological issues) fall in love with a girl's breasts. The story plays out pretty much like you'd expect.

edited 12th Dec '10 6:31:12 PM by SandJosieph

That actually sounds awesome. Seriously.

Unfortunately, the series I wrote is very much Darker and Edgier...though the Mood Whiplash makes it have it's Lighter and Softer moments too. So I don't know if that work for my series because of the sharp contrast. I even deconstruct Fanservice and fetish fuel in my series (though I still use and parody them too...a lot, to the point where the deconstruction is virutally void) along with deconstructing and/or playing darkly too many tropes to count. HOWEVER...now I want to write a Refuge in Audacity piece. So I will probably write a crazy piece soon. I've been writing too many Tear Jerkers lately anyways.

edited 12th Dec '10 6:43:58 PM by darkclaw

I want to read Sand Josieph's story.

/no shame

I also want to read Sand Josieph's story. I'm not ashamed either.

Well, my story isn't very far (I've only got "Joan's breasts heaved when she sat up in bed and stretched out her arms...") but I have good hopes for it.

That is still an excellent start. Sincerity Mode is on, I promise. The concept seems like it could lead to some hilarious adventures.

@darkclaw: I'm not at all turned on by muscle growth, and I'd still watch your anime if it gets made. If that's anything to go by. My work is all Refuge in Audacity, so I can't help you balance anything because, well, I'm unbalanced.

@Josieph: Joan's Bosom does indeed sound like an awesome story. Just one question... does she lactate by any chance?

Not sure if she does at this point, although there is a good chance of it. I just need a good excuse as to why she would. I was thinking having someone inject her with hormones but I'd like to go with something more natural.

Umm, I hate to bring an old thread up again (as noted when I did it before, I am falling into the tropes of Irony and Hypocrite), but I wanted some advice which I felt fell under this thread.

My goal is by May 1st to finally finish my entire character bible, episode list and the first three scripts for my series. Easy enough due to constantly working on them (hopefully), but here's where the problem comes in. After reading the (mostly) complete character bible, I wondered if I went overboard on the Author Appeal. In a series with MANY characters, I have two Amazonian Beauty/Hot Amazon type characters. I know that there are dozens of female characters (same with male characters; remember this is a LONG series) and one of the aforementioned "Amazon" characters is fairly minor...but the other is an important character for a lot of the series. A third character I'm still trying to decide if she should be muscular or not (she's currently an athletic, tall Pirate Girl with a sword; who works out and trains a lot for fighting purposes).

If I want to perfect this series and pitch it for a contest (hence the May 1st deadline), I want to make sure that it doesn't polarize the audience due to an Amazonian Beauty being around often. On one hand, I'm sure she'll be Fetish Fuel for some of the audience (look at her description earlier in the conversation)...on the other hand, I don't want the judges looking at my work to dislike it due to the Author Appeal (since I kind of want it to win the contest) and if it is made by some random chance that defies all odds, I don't want the audience to be squicked out by her.

It seems to me unless you've established a character for a long time as "female, buff and hot" it's hard to make a lot of fans like her for those qualities, other than those who have a muscle fetish. At least after talking to some friends in Real Life. I mean, Chun-Li and She Hulk are buff yet fans love them, so why shouldn't I make a character like that? I was thinking of giving her a Transformation Sequence so fans could either like her "conventional beauty" or her Amazonian Beauty...but that's too much like She Hulk and her muscles actually help her characterization (if you were a woman buffer and taller than most anyone, you may have some trouble "fitting in" in some places due to human standards of what defines a beautiful and/or normal woman...see No Guy Wants an Amazon, though she manages to subvert that trope).

It was mentioned earlier that I shouldn't worry about it in terms of audience (except for Live Journal). However, I am now worried due to the upcoming (possible) submission. Should I be worried about critics, well, critiquing my Author Appeal?

Sorry for the long post and reviving this topic.

NOTE: For those who don't know and don't want to click the provided links, Amazonian Beauty is a fairly new trope. It was due to the split at Hot Amazon. Basically, Hot Amazon = She kicks butt, that's hot; and Amazonian Beauty = Ms. Fanservice with muscles.

@ Sand Josieph

Is your story (Joan's Bosom) still being updated? I truly enjoyed it.

edited 2nd Jan '11 3:10:49 PM by darkclaw

My story needs revisions. I was thinking of starting the story at the wedding scene and having the rest play out through flashbacks but the first three words will read as "Joan's breasts heaved..."

By the way, I'd like some more boob gags to put Joan through. So far I've got her going through a cannibal town and ends up with her boobs on some plates ready to be served (she gets out of it by the skin of her tits), there's a camping scene where she gets separated and has to spend a night in a leaky cave in which she has to use her breasts to plug up some "crevices", and there's also the clothing the twin sister makes for Joan for easy access to her bosom.

Another thing, how fast should I break it to the audience that the twins are in love with Joan's chest? I was thinking that they originally that they start showing affection at a party they are hosting when Joan gets into a messy accident with the party food and the twins help her clean up. Then they invite her on a hike where more intimacy is had which freaks out Joan so she makes her escape, hides in the leaky cavern, and then stumbles into the cannibal village.

Actually, I think a better question would be, "How do I right from the viewpoint of body parts that don't have eyes or minds of their own?"

edited 2nd Jan '11 3:32:51 PM by SandJosieph