This section covers only the second season
of Digimon Adventure
. For WMG regarding the entire franchise, go here
. For WMGs specific to another work, go to the following:
This entire page is to be read with Ken's
Try it. You'll like it.
How can such a Badass Baritone
not be the voice?
Ken is some sort of Christian
His name is Ken, though anyone can be named anything and some names are similar/same in many languages it still stands out given the names of everyone else in the franchise. He chose the title of Kaiser, as a genius he's probably good at history but given Japan's feudal past it is interesting he went for a foreign western title some people in his native country have no clue about than a Japanese one everyone would recognize. The Kaiser thing make sense to me due to its associations with the Holy Roman Empire. His mother doesn't look as anime-esque as the other characters. During the Christmas episode he wears the stereotypical Cosby sweater most people have given/received during the holidays at one point in their lives (at least in the US). His living room has a Christmas themed calendar with tree, stocking, and Santa Claus. He hosted a Christmas party, complete with colored enveloped invitations. He speaks decent Spanish and seems to know Mexico's curfew laws, though he could have researched them beforehand, he's a little too familiar with them, makes it seem to me that he's been there before, note Mexico is home to one of the world's most famous Catholic sites. Also most of the Spanish speaking world is Christian. While Malo Myotismon
had everyone in happy land, Ken pictured his Emperor persona being hurt and insulted by a crowd while tied high up to a control spire, in a sandy, hilly place with clouds gathering, hmm doesn't that seem familiar? Granted the control spire execution is ironically fitting but given his age and knowledge he could have imagined that scene in many different ways, instead he went with something most Christian kids already know about and are familiar with from the start.
The Distant Finale
never happened; it was all an illusion created by Malo Myotismon
to keep the Digidestined busy as he conquered both worlds.
The sudden appearance of fantasies and dreams theretofore unknown and undiscussed seemed way too convenient and arbitrary, especially right when they were about to be consumed in a torturous nightmare vision. Surely, it must be a trick to throw the Digidestined off guard and leave himself free to conquer both worlds unopposed, especially when most of those same "positive" visions went entirely contrary to their known passions (for instance, Yamato's known love for music vs. his sudden dream of becoming an astronaut).
- Alternatively, the finale was specifically created for the Tamers universe when the show was cancelled; the producers had to make something up. This explains the loose ends in 02; there was going to be a third season, but it never happened. Of course, in the real Adventures universe, who knows?
- This is supported (in this troper's mind) by the fact that, despite strong evidence of a romantic connection between Takeru and Hikari, they aren't married or even rumored to be attached in the Finale, although they have one child apiece. Since the crests of Hope and Light were said to be the strongest two crests, of course they would be kept apart, even in hallucination, in case they should react against each other and break the illusion.
- There's strong evidence of a deep friendship between Takeru and Hikari, but no evidence points to it being romantic, at least on Hikari's side. The same would go for Takeru, too, if his Image Song didn't exist.
- I would also point out Hikari's own Image Song. Well, technically it's the 'Girls' Festival Digimon' album. Her song, 'Reflection' seems to spawn the idea of it being her response to Takeru's.
- I'd argue that her feelings for Takeru don't run as deep as the other way around. In her message on the 100 Title Memorial CD collection, she mentions that "as she thought, her brother is the one she loves most." (No, not like that).
- But in the end, they were shown holding hands in the official finale poster. Nothing says 'reciprocity' more than holding hands when you're two eleven-year-old anime characters who are best friends...with potential.
- Or it could be that the ending and distant finale was all infact Motomiya's illusion. Think about it. All the other kids were shown their deepest desires except for Motomiya. They say it was because other than defeating Malo Myotismon he had no problems. But the other visions just showed desires, even shallow wishes like haveing deserts all to yourself. So are they really saying Motomiya had no desires even a petty one? So next we see all the other kids join Motomiya like he wanted them to. V-mon becomes stronger like he wanted him to. They all work together like he wanted them to. Then Malo Myotismon is destroyed just like he wanted. He even said earlier that his only desire then is to defeat Malo Myotismon. So I think that why Takeru and Hikari didn't get together at the end is because even though Motomiya realises somewhere that he has no chance with Hikari he still doesn't want Takeru to get her either.
- This makes Fridge Brilliance when you figure that the Distant Finale was a 10 year olds dream. The simplicity of the given future really gives it away. Let me summarize Motomiya dream: After everyone helps defeat Malomyotismon (but my digimon gets the final shot) we live happily and are never bothered by Dagomon or Deamon again, latter we will grow older and get married(Miyako punched Ken so she would marry him) and have kids that look just like us and are kids will have digimon of the same type as us.
- While I support this general WMG, I gotta say: I made up my mind to be a Consulting Detective when I was a kid. And some years thereafter, I made up a whole packet of very stupid and poor-quality storylines and sent it off to ElfQuest in the hopes of being able to work for them (I see copies of this in my house now and then and cringe). While I suppose it's unrealistic to believe that of a group of a dozen or more kids not one of them knew what he really wanted to be when he grew up, it's equally suspect to think that no one changed their mind as their old dreams revealed themselves to be just that - dreams - and new, more intelligent choices took their place. I mean, even when most young American boys were dreaming of becoming astronauts and cowboys, only some tiny fraction of them went on to work for and achieve those dreams.
- Yes, but in a narrative, you have to show development, change, and motivation, something the writers all but forgot in the epilogue for 02. In real life, sure, I can believe that someone like Yamato would choose not to pursue a career related to music, or that Mimi would somehow gain an interest in hosting a cooking show. In the actual story, not a chance. For every character that had a reasonable job in the end (Jou, Koushirou, Hikari), there were just as many whose chosen professions seemed to pop out of nowhere (Daisuke, Miyako, Yamato). This, along with the clone kids and pairings in the end, made the writing fall incredibly flat. And to add insult to injury, all the male characters have prestigious, high-powered jobs in the finale, while every single female character is relegated to either a domestic or traditionally feminine sphere.
- Well, Japan was a fairly misogynistic culture back then...
....because assuming they did escape and actually fight again,it seems very likely that the same creature that killed up Arukenimon and Mummymon so sadistically would've made sure to Mind Rape
. Malo Myotismon probably put them under Mind Rape
and we know how shell-shocked TK already was. He just couldn't write the truth without going into the Troubled Fetal Position
or committing suicide. So in a double-whammy to give Daisuke more credit (since the real Daisuke was probably far stronger) and give a satisfying ending to Malo Myotismon,he intentionally made up the "generic darkness" attack,imagined Leomon returned, and the "hopes and dreams" parts to the defeat of Malo Myotismon
Building off of the above theory, the in-universe creative team for the Digimon Adventure
anime had their original ending vetoed by the execs in favor of setting up a third season starring a whole new cast of kids: the children of the original Digidestined. They couldn't get the execs to change their minds, so instead, they deliberately made the ending in order to upset the fans
and have it declared Canon Discontinuity
. Whether or not the third season ever got off the ground (or what form it took in the Tamers verse) after this is up in the air...
- When they found out Digimon were real, the writers were either taken by the government or went into hiding.
- Of course it was.
Yolei Miyako, a housewife? Unbelievable!
- You say that like there's something wrong with being a housewife (yes, yes, I know, she's Miyako, but housewife has a bunch of unfortunate stereotypes assigned to it. Miyako would be an awesome one.)
- Well, it's just that she would be probably dreaming of kicking asses together with Ken. If anything, she's in her maternity break, that's it.
- She's probably solving the cases when he's not looking.
- Yeah, really, there's no saying she's not doing her awesome hacking stuff and computer programming in her spare time (this is fiction, so they can probably play liberties with how tough and constant a real housewife's job is). Just because you become a wife and a mother and opt to stay at home doesn't mean you automatically give up everything you were awesome at before, does it? For that matter, do we HAVE a trope for awesome housewives?
- Yes, its Action Mom.
- It would be unsurprising if during pregnancy, she's a Pregnant Badass.
- This is why there are so many sudden and blatantly impossible plot twists in the finale. It's physically impossible for any space mission to go that much farther than what they were intended for; the cost of fuel is so high that it's just not possible for them to have made it Mars if they were aiming for the Moon. Why don't we see even a cameo of a husband/wife for Iori, Hikari, Koushiro, Jou, etc? Because, as a Poorly Disguised Pilot, the job of the episode was to create character designs and ties to canon characters for the children. The writers left out the bulk of the couplings as part of their protest to help highlight how stupid they felt what they were being asked to do was. Why is Sora a fashion designer when Mimi was the character in-series with an interest in clothing? Because it contradicts canon and the writers hate their bosses.
- This is why there's so much Generation Xerox going on, too. The animators/actors/casting department were in on the protest and cast/drew the most obviously Xeroxed people they could. They even cast Daisuke's canon actor to play his own son/reused the character designs but with minor Palette Swap additions. As anyone who listens to commentary knows, the staff of an entire show are often close, especially after a show that went on as long as Digimon did. If part of them are mistreated it's easy to anger the entire group. That's why everything's so weird in the season finale - everyone on staff was angry. Think about it: all the actors are suddenly being replaced, the plot's being thrown out the window, they're being forced to work on a poorly disguised pilot and it's quite likely a lot of these people won't be working on the next Digimon series. It wasn't just a Writer Revolt, everyone was pissed.
- While the occupations of the adult Digidestend seem strange and even jarring, remember that they were kids. Their interests and their personalities changed as they got older. Characterization Marches On.
The entirety of Adventure and Adventure 02 is viewed as told by TK.
TK becomes a writer in the Distant Finale
of Adventure 02, writing about the adventures that he and his friends had in the Digital World. However, what's to say that this isn't just his interpretation of events, in which he makes himself more powerful/important than he actually was
. Think about it. TK and Patamon are the ones who bail everyone out when all hope is lost, with Patamon's overpowered evolutions and TK's Crest of Hope. Likewise, Kari, his potential love interest, is also overpowered, essentially his Distaff Counterpart
. He and Kari are the only two of the old Digidestined who still have prominent roles in Adventure 02, and while they're less overpowered, they're still fairly special within the universe. TK also becomes more badass
in this series (doing things like unflinchingly taking a whip to the face) and becomes a "deeper" character who angsts over a fear he didn't struggle with in Adventure 01, while Kari becomes more of a Distressed Damsel
and Broken Bird
who needs rescuing and comfort. The Distant Finale
is the only thing that really happened, and the rest of the series is a Darker and Edgier
version of that reality. Alternatively, because none of us want the finale to be true
, the whole thing is entirely fictional, and the characters are all based off of his friends. Alternatively to that
, TK actually lives in the Digimon Tamers
universe, and he is a fanfiction writer.
Malo Myotismon wasn't killed by The Power of Friendship
. The speeches by the children were so agonizingly painful to hear, his heart exploded.
Like Astos from 8-Bit Theater
- Astos? More like Yo Ass is Toast!
- Uggggh, my heart!
- Damn, this red stuff is everywhere!!
Ken receiving the Dark Seed and becoming the Kaiser was actually all planned out by Machinedramon/Millenniummon, in an effort to ensure that his own birth would occur by way of a Stable Time Loop
Chimeramon is one half of the Jogress evolution that resulted in Millenniummon. But Chimeramon was created by the Digimon Kaiser, whose memories of his first time in the Digital World were spotty at best. So, just before Chimeramon died after its fight with Magnamon, it was brought back in time by Millenniummon so that it could Jogress evolve with a mortally wounded Machinedramon, and be born into Millenniummon. There's no way of knowing whether Ken got the idea to create Chimeramon because of a buried memory, or because of his own creativity—and thus a Stable Time Loop
- That would mean Millenniummon plan was the one that was being fulfilled the whole time despite what others claimed and he successfully continued to operate without anyone figuring it out.
- Alternatively, it could just be a result of things falling into the right place for Machinedramon/Millenniummon. Seeing an oppourtunity to become whole again, Machinedramon absorbed the just-desrtoyed Kimmeramon's data before it could become a digi-egg. Due to the sheer power the fusion had produced, Machinedramon traveled back in time WHILE Digivolving into Millenniummon. Thus discovering it's time/dimenseon powers, & kicking off the WonderSwan games.
Koushiro married Daisuke's sister Jun
Just because his daughter in the timeskip looks way more like her than she should. Also, Jun probably changed to a more nerdy type after she got rejected by the pop one, even if such nerd was one of her last crush's BFFs.
- Possibly jossed? One of the Drama C Ds confirmed she stated dating Jou's brother Shin.
And while we're on the subject of characters marrying more obscure characters...
Osamu Ichijoji was the original holder for the Crest of Kindness, not Ken, and was intended to be the Digimon Kaiser.
Not sure how much I believe this one, but it's possible. Sam wanted to keep his brother away from the Digivice, so may have had a feeling of personal connection to it, but was too wrapped up in his Real Life and Stardom to work out exactly what it was all about. This weakened his connection to the Digital World. However, there's still no saying that Sam never
went to the Digital World, or that other people aren't able to use Digivices (which would explain how Ken got into the Digital world that time when he was infected with the Dark Spore). It's possible that Malmyotismon had Osamu singled out as an alternate means means by which he could take overthe Digital World should his then ongoing battle with the other eight Digidestined fail. After Osamu's untimely death, a new route had to be taken.
We've already seen that Crest power is transferable between people (and people can apparently swap their Digieggs and D-Terminals in order to produce different Digimon evolutions in their partners, as was demonstrated in a Drama CD.)It wouldn't be too strange for Osamu's crest to automatically switch to his younger brother. (Crests can apparently do this, as they did with Daisuke, Miyako and Iori, who had only the slightest connections to the existing Digidestined, so a crest's power transferring directly to an original bearer's brother
doesn't seem unlikely.) The Dark Spore turned out to be the ideal means with which to encourage the changes in Ken which would have come more naturally in Sam. Drawing him into the Dark Ocean, using his grief, guilt and unresovled issues with Osamu as encouragement was easy enough.
- Where have we seen that Crests themselves are transferable between people? Digimentals are not the same thing as Crests, and the audio disks are of questionable canon anyway.
- Where have we seen that they aren't? Digimentals represented the same qualities as crests, but weren't usable by the original core eight (with the exceptions of Hikari and Takeru). I reckon this counts as transferring the crests powers, but I guess if the Digimentals don't actually count... Still, even if they aren't the same thing, none of the original eight ever died. If they did, what would happen to the power of their crest? It died with them? The idea of it being shifted to someone else (possibly someone close to them) sounds at least equally likely.
- Except that you're ignoring a rather important point in canon: Ken went to the Digital World while Osamu was still very much alive. The scene where the digivice comes through the computer has Ken saying how he believed himself that it had to belong to Osamu, since Osamu was good at everything, but that nothing happened when Osamu had touched it. And when Ken touched the digivice for the first time while going through Osamu's drawer, he was transported to the Digital World immediately. The Digital World doesn't dilly-dally; if the digivice had been Osamu's, he would have been sent to the Digital World the first time he touched the digivice. So this troper thinks it's safe to say that Ken was the Chosen Child, not Osamu, and that logically, the Crest of Kindness was also his.
- And Again you can't swap crest. They were specifically design to only be powered by the person they belonged too. As we found out the power of courage/friendship/love/sincerity/knowledge/reliability/hope/light was inside the respective child the whole time not physical properties like the Digimentals. But yes obviously Ken was always meant to be a Digidestined.
- True... Unless Believing Makes It Work is a factor here (it is to an extent, but probably not to the extent of getting into the DW), then I guess this one is discredited.
They look alike, have the same hair, both dress in white, have an affinity for capes, and even have the same voice actor in English!
- They don't have the same hair. I think you're confusing the megane-kuns; the one who has the same hair as Ken is Tieria Erde.
- I think it's much more likely that Ken and Uryu are related somehow, possibly through Ken's mother. Ken actually has latent quincy abilities that he hasn't managed to tap into due to a lack of training.
- No. Uryuu is related to Yamato (and Takeru). They both have Ishida as a surname.
- Nah. Ishida's a pretty common family name, as is Inoue. So it's no more likely that Uryu'd be related to Takeru and Yamato.
- No, he's really Touya Akira. When he wasn't plotting as the Digimon Kaiser, he was competing in Go tournaments throughout the world.
- That's actually reasonable. Compared to the several billion other hobbies he has (speed-math, soccer, inventing, chess...), Go really wouldn't be that much of a stretch.
The fact that Spirit Particles work the same way as data does in the Digital World is perhaps more than just a coincidence. And the cycle of a Digimon's evolution (and rebirth after deletion) is reminiscent of the transition spiritually powerful souls make to Zanpaktou-wielding Shinigami (and the various releases of said Zanpaktou). Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Urahara Kisuke has something to do with it.
- Champion=Original Zankaputo
- Perfect=Shikai release
- Ultimate=Bankai release
- Dark Digivolution=Hollow/Vizard form
- The Digital world is merely an MMORPG played by the Shinigami and the Arrancar in their offtime.
- I can see Kisuke as Gennai, Aizen as Myotismon, Ichigo as Tai (Later Davis), Rukia as Sora, Uryuu as Matt, Rangiku as Mimi, Orihime as Kari, Chad as Joe (Usually the most cautious), Keigo as TK, Mizuiro as Izzy, Tatuski as Yolei, Byakuya as Ken and Hitsugaya as Codi.
- Considering Matt's last name is Ishida...
- And Aizen as Patamon. He purposefully killed the character when he discovered his Digivolution was Angemon. Someone else took him up when he was resurrected.
- Alternatively, Karakura town being a crossroads between the spiritual and modern worlds, the concentration of spiritual energy rebounded off the computers and forged a new world. Kisuke, owning up to yet another screwup, fashions devices that can manipulate spiritual (now digital) particles, recruits pre-teens with attitude under the alias Gennai and sends them off to clean up his mess.
- Flip this on its head for a second; the Soul Society and Hueco Mundo are aspects of the Digital World, specifically the aspects regarding resurrection. The Shinigami are powerful programs that guide the Digimon along the paths of ressurection and back to Primary Village while fighting off viruses (Hollows) that seek to consume the vulnerable data. It's possible that Gennai himself is a Shinigami.
As other people have brought up before, there are probably Digidestined for every country.
It seems to be determined by the size and population of the country. Hong Kong is extremely crowded beyond all sanity, as is New York City, and so they require their own teams to be manageable. The Siberian wilderness requires only a few people, and as we can see with Russia really big countries require one team on each end. Presumably China has a metric ton of Digidestined we don't see, because there's no reason for Yuehon to be the only one for such a giant country. Ditto for India.
- America probably has one team per state, or maybe one team per "region" (like, one for New England, one for the Old South, one for the Pacific Northwest, etc.).
- I think it depends on the region. New England, for example, is distinct and tightly integrated, while others (like the Midwest) are less so. So I'd make the argument that it varies depending on where you are. New England has one team (probably Boston-based), while in other parts of the country, it goes by state, such as New York, California, or Illinois.
- If the 4chan's meme is right, Brazil's team would probably wreak a bit of havoc on the digital world.
- Wouldn't it be better to say its based of the technology population? In that case even though there are tons of people is certain areas the amount of technology may be disproportionate.
- Actually, according to this site (which I totally recommend) - to be specific, this comparison - the number of Digidestined in the world is probably less than 1000. So it's more than likely that not every single country HAS Digidestined. Either that, or the kids from North Korea are some of the very few North Koreans lucky enough to actually HAVE Internet access.
- One thing to keep in mind is that except for Japan (Which has around 30), most countries only have one or two, from what we saw in the show. Even if we extend that to three, with 195 soverign nations, that still only works out to under 700- well under the 1000 ceiling, but more than enough to have one per country.
- And a few of the Digimon of each country are probably based on local myths/living thing.
- Specific Countries
- A related theory, derrived from the connection between computers and digimon, is that the number of digidestined per country is proportional to how much of the internet runs through that country's servers and/or runs through sites associated with that country's web address code (.mx, .fr, .jp, etc).
- Additionally, problems needing digidestined are also probably proportional to how much internet is from that country, so countries with little web presence probably have only one digidestined, if that, but don't need them as badly.
- Wait, so North Korea is a utopia, having no digimon? Hm... I wonder how I feel about that...
- Which is sadly jossed by the franchise itself. If nothing else stays consistent its that the digital world draws data from all electronic communications people use. The internet is what kicked it off but a radio or telegraphs really all that's needed now that the digital world has formed.
Ken went to the Digital World before he became the Kaiser not once, but twice.
Hear me out, because I've been chewing this over for a while and... it just makes more sense to me that things occurred this way (unless I'm interpreting events in the anime and the games horrendously wrong and there is a timeline out there that explains away the anomalies I'm going to point out - in which case, please, explain this to me!)
In 1999, on the same day that Taichi and co. get sucked into the Digital World, Osamu's computer spits out Ken's Digivice. Very shortly afterward, Ken gets the digivice, gets sucked into the Digital World, and immediately
comes back (or at least only spends an hour or two there). Since the flow of time between the digital and real worlds are so different, it's extremely possible that, even if Ken got lost in there, he could still have had a minor adventure before arriving back in the real world in time for Sam to lose his temper at him. A key word here is quick
; Ken could not have spent enough time to have run into a Digimon because in Tag Tamers, he has absolutely no idea what a Digimon is, yet he has his digivice (maybe he landed in a desert.) Fast forward a year: Sam's already died and Ken has actually adequately recovered enough
from his death to have his adventure in the Digital World with Ryo. (This isn't entirely implausible, I think. He's a stronger kid than most people would give him credit for, even back then.) Why doesn't he remember his jaunt into the Digital World from before? I'm willing to bet that the emotional strain from Sam's death repressed the memory of entering his computer (because, really, the Digital World
? He must have thought he had gone temporarily insane.) He's as surprised as anyone else would be when Ryo brought him into the Digital World for the second time.
This explains 1) how Ken got his digivice before entering the Digital World in Tag Tamers (and matches significant events in both timelines up nicely with the original series), 2) why Ryo wasn't present the first time Ken gets sucked into the Digital World as seen in the animated series, 3) why Ken looks so much younger when he first gets the Digivice, and why he looks significantly older during the Tag Tamers' timeline 4) and finally, why he had no idea what a Digimon was at the outset of the Tag Tamers games. From there on, the timeline should be a lot less confusing - since Ken was already a bit of a hikikomori and kept mostly to himself, the three week recovery period after Tag Tamers would have gone almost completely unnoticed by his parents (you'd be surprised how easily people disappear in Japanese society…) After he made it back to the real world, his memories and personality had already changed enough to facilitate his Kaiser persona via the Dark Spore. While already forgetting his adventure in the Digital World, he got the e-mail from Oikawa, changed his Digivice into a D-3 in the Dark Ocean, and began his reign over the Digital World.
Any inaccuracies or abnormalities between Ken's memory and canon sequences of events were probably caused from the framing of the information - since in the anime we're getting Ken's point of view on his history, and it's already established his memory is fucked as all hell… It explains why we saw Wormmon's touching speech when Ken looks eight years old and Ryo is with him with no digimon (it's fridge brilliance, in a way; since they were apart for the majority of the fighting during the game, there was no way Ken could know what kind of digimon Ryo was using, but he definitely was
a strong presence with Ken throughout his sequences. It makes sense that Ken would only remember Ryo in detail during that sequence. ETA: Now that I think about it, it also makes sense that he would perceive himself at the youngest age he could remember; that was the last time he was still looking
for his "heart", right?)
Phew, that's that. Hopefully, this all made sense. :)
- It makes perfect sense. This is also my Canon now, to boot.
- Original poster here; it just occurred to me that he could have run into some digimon on his first go around in the Digital World, only to have it repressed by his brother's death. It would depend on how badly he was affected by it. Either way, he went to the Digital World, and then forgot about it. :)b
- This isn't WMG, it's actually canon, albeit from a rather obscure source, the WonderSwan games. Ken went twice to the digital world; once when Osamu was still alive, and the second time, during the events depicted on Digimon Adventure 02: Tag Tamers. The catalyst that changed his personality was the Dark Spore that Millenniummon implanted in him. Originally intended to hit his friend Ryo Akiyama, Ken dove to protect the other boy and was hit instead. Tag Tamers' epilogue states that he grew cold and ruthless even to Wormmon, assuming the Kaiser persona.
- Original poster again; hi! I think you might have missed the point of the WMG and/or didn't read it all the way through. I was perfectly aware of the games (and even played through a few of them myself), and I said that I was incorporating game canon with the anime canon. What I pointed out was the fact that you see very contradictory and unclear scenes in the anime and the games (i.e. ambiguous timelines age-wise, why Ken states at the beginning of Tag Tamers that he'd never heard of the Digital World before when he had already been there a few years before, when precisely he had gotten his digivice (since the games are pretty vague on that anyway), etc). What I was trying to do was come up with a reason why that might have been. Hope that helps you understand what I wrote before!
- One problem with this is that Oikawa said that when he saw Ken at Osamu's funeral he could see that he had a Dark Seed in him and this was his motivation for using Ken in his plans, meaning by the time of Osamu's funeral (presumably not long after his death) the events of the game had already occurred.
- Where is the inconsistency? Digimon Adventure ended in 1998, Cathode/Anode Tamer happened right after that (without Ken). Afterwards, there was our war game, followed by Tag Tamers (where ken first met the digital world). There, he was hit by the dark spore, and nursed back to health by ryo and wormmon before returning to the real world (without wormmon), by which point only a little time had passed, and osamu later saw the digivice and thought it was his, with D1 Tamers happening some time before 02, in 2002. The only real problem is if in Tag Tamers he was being healed by wormmon in his house (in the real world). Note that in the games, the sprites aren't two clear on his looks (even though he was just 2 years younger). I guess we have to assume he grew all that in two years, or that in the dreams he saw himself with an emotional age, rather than a real one.
At least is the that her arc in the Dark Ocean hints.
- Just to be clear I always assumed Ken got his digivice and became a Digidestined/Chosen as a result of seeing the battle with Apocalymon like most people. If he got his Digivice the same as Taichi and others, wouldn't they look for an 8th and 9th child?
MaloMyotismon is the same Digimon that's been pestering the Chosens since the very beginning.
Back in Adventure
, Angemon kills Devimon and both dissolve into data. While Takeru raises his Digi-Egg back to Patamon, Devimon hatches out of his own egg somewhere else in the Digital World and evolves his way up to Myotismon on his second life. Devimon -> Myotismon is a legit evolution, and it's likely the species that hatched out of Devimon's egg can easily evolve back to Devimon just like Takeru's partner was Toko/Patamon before and after the Devimon fight.
In a more powerful form and eager to avenge his first loss, the former Devimon rounds up some flunkies (including Gatomon) and vows to take down the Chosens the second time. Thus, the Myotismon the Chosens meet after the Etemon arc is the same Devimon that was defeated on File Island, hence VenomMyotismon later in the arc, and finally MaloMyotismon at the end of 02
are the same Devimon as well.
- I like this theory! Going one step further, do you think you could incorporate the Devimon that was at the bottom of the ocean that was later combined into Kimeramon?
- Original poster: Consider Whamon and all of the other black gear Monsters Of The Week. If the gears weren't fully destroyed, perhaps there were leftover bits of gear data that settled down in the ocean (especially considering File Island split into its own fragments during the Devimon arc). BlackWarGreymon was formed from Ken's leftover spires, who's to say this wasn't the Adventure precedent?
- Doesn't Gatomon have memories of working with Myotismon for much longer than a few months, though?
- Original poster: The main span of time to look at was how long Tai spent back at his apartment in "Home Away from Home". Even if he was only with Kari for an hour or two, that's still a couple of months' Digital World time right there. Factor in the time it took for the ocean/Etemon arc, plus the time it took for Tai to reform the Chosens, and you realistically have a span of several months for Gatomon to become inclined with Myotismon. Gatomon could have also been an offscreen assistant to Devimon before he was killed (maybe a scout), adding another week or two to her resume.
- This makes a LOT of sense truthfully. Also, think about who beat him. Angemon as Devimon and Angewomon as Myotismon. On top of that, Venom Myotismon was brought down thanks to those two as well. And this also makes Myotismon's obcession with the Digidestined make more sense. Revenge. And it makes his final appearence make more sense, if he truly was their first enemy, wouldn't it make sense for him to return as their last?
- It's a shame that Myotismon's data went to Oikawa and remained there for the Dark Masters Saga, because a possible line for Devimon from the Pendulum V-Pets was Devimon -> Myotismon -> Piedmon.
- Alternatively, due to the obscurity of the timeline during Gatomon's flashback, Devimon in fact reincarnated as DemiDevimon. Granted, if this is true, then his possible second defeat would be a rather humiliating end to the original Big Bad.
- Doesn't Devimon taking over Chimeramon while Myotismon is some old dude contradict this theory? Maybe but it would have been more interesting if it was true somehow.
- Yeah this whole theory is completely jossed when the same Devimon that the kids fought in Adventure returns at the end of the Digimon Kaizer arc. Also there is no way in hell that Devimon could have come back that fast from being reconfigured and Digivolved into Ultimate. It took Patamon quite sometime to even become Patamon again and even longer to have enough strength to be able to digivolve into Angemon (seriously it was another 20 episodes before Angemon returned after his debut) and that's WITH a human partner. Natural Digivolution takes a while and its incredibly difficult to go past the Champion level.
Both Adventure and 02 are actually adaptations.
In universe that is. At the end of 02, it's shown that Takeru becomes an author and writes a book about his childhood adventures. However, the series is anime. Thus the anime that we see is in fact an in-universe adaptation of the books that Takeru has written. Any plot holes or elements that seem to come out of nowhere (for example Yamato and Sora getting married
) is actually a result of the adaptation "skiping" some of the story. Presumably there is actual justification for them in the original novels.
- Maybe the explanation of this entire WMG is that Takeru is just a really shoddy writer, and as a result none of adventure 02 is cannon. This would explain why Takeru gets to be the most badass, overshadowing Daisuke, and Matt gets to be with Sora and become an astronaut, overshadowing Taichi.
- Takeru got to overshadow Daisuke, what show did you watch?
- Maybe he misinterpreted his memories of childhood and made Tai/Sora seem like more of a thing than it actually was.
- Its just as likely that the ending was completely fictional(Names changed;Random Jobs;Nondescript Relationships) so the chosen children could live in peace and not have to deal with the media.
The Motomiya are related
to the Yagami.
- Daisuke's father and Hikari's father are brothers. You can tell because of the Hereditary Hairstyle. Hikari knows that she is related to Daisuke, but can't find a good way to bring it up. That is why Hikari is so cold to Daisuke's advances.
- Wouldn't it be Daisuke's dad and Hikari's mom? Or perhaps the other way around?
- This theory wouldn't be too far off and Daisuke's crush on Hikari would still be justified because cousin marriage is allowed in Japan.
The Airdramon in the Dark Ocean episode was fake.
- The Evil Ring worn by the Airdramon did not lose effect when Pegasmon destroyed the Dark Tower, and Angewomon did not even attempt to free it from the Evil Ring before destroying it.
Much of the fandom (including myself) believes that Osamu and Ryou knew each other, being friends or classmates. Ryou could have told Osamu about his first adventure in the Digital World with all the details and therefore, Osamu might have known what a Digivice is and does when it came out of his computer. First thinking it might be his, he came to the conclusion it could also be Ken's when it did not react to him and decided it would be better to keep it away from Ken because he thought his little brother was too young for such an adventure, and locked it away, claiming it would belong to him and not Ken.
In the Distant Finale
Matt is a world famous musician trained to be an astronaut.
The people in charge of the space project decided it was easier to train a guy who had his Digimon partner for years rather than get a Digimon for one of their astronauts. Kinda like Armaggedon.
- But would not that apply to everyone? People started getting digimon even before the final battle at the end of Digimon Adventure 02. And after the ending? I am sure that everyone getting digimon includes already trained and in-training astronauts. Besides, training a digimon is not the same as drilling for oil/planting explosives.
Millenniummon Set everything up in a Gambit Pileup
such as resurrecting Vamdemon and kill Sam and having Ken infected.
He is also the one to tell Deamon and Vamdemon about the Dark seeds, and removed Dagomon from action for trying to fight back.
The only reason that Vamdemon did not win was because when Ryo defeated Millenniummon, all of the dark seeds lost power and left Vamdemon without and defenses. It also explains why none of the children relapsed into digimon Kaisers.
- This WMG makes a surprising amount of sense, when you consider that everything the Chosen Children had to deal with in Digimon Adventure was caused by him.
The plot holes in the first half of the season were on purpose, but the explanation was thrown away in a rewrite
Three of the largest complaints about 02's early story converge in a single episode, The original japanese version of episode 27:
- This episode introduced the explanation why the kids couldn't evolve to ultimate/perfect anymore: They had sacrificed the power of their crests. The fandom often points out that this should have been impossible, since the crests were already gone and the power came from the children themselves. Except, the episode does bring this up when patamon, smiling creepily, explains that the power of the crests is still in their hearts and not gone at all. In addition, the episode also features Ken's crest of kindness, which completely throws the 'the sacrifice of all the crests restored the world and the darkness anomaly has not been detected since' explanation out of whack.
- It is often pointed out that digimon shouldn't be a secret after digimon adventure. So it seems weird that the children, especially the original ones, would have to hide the digimon from their parents. Indeed, in this episode, Izzy warns the digidestined that his mom could see them. His mom, who later, stays completely calm when she sees the digimon and refers to tentomon by name, indicating that these events are in fact still canon.
- The dark ocean. This episode actually has the dark ocean as the main villain, and apparently the driving force behind Arukenimon's actions. We know that dissatisfaction amongst the writers caused the dark ocean plotline to be largely dropped. It is commonly assumed that this happened after episode 13, but if that was the case, this episode wouldn't have the dark ocean as the driving force behind a main villain. So, what if that episode wasn't what caused the dissatisfaction? What if it was this one. Most, if not all, of the notable plot holes get at least a token mention in this episode, as well as all of the character inconsistencies and oddities. Is it possible that the dark ocean was originally planned as some sort of brain-affecting world-wide effect and that some writers thought that that would be too dark? It's a wild idea, but that's why it's called wild mass guessing.
So yeah, it's really just a case of too much plot oddities concentrated too thickly, with too much stuff in the episode to point out why it shouldn't work. It's not just these three. For example, TK and Yolei need to be told about the DNA-evolution of Wargreymon and metalgarurumon, despite them originally being there. There are dozens of examples like that in the episode.
- It clear that they are trolling as soon as they make it clear that anyone with the poor sense to grow up could not part of the fun.
Datamon (or someone with a similar plan) returned and copied the chosen children.
- After the last battle and before the epilogue, Datamon came back to life a reenact his last plan. He hunted down the children one by one by manipulated the tvs and internet data to draw them to him. The children unable to evolve past champion stage fell easily and where copied and the originals destroyed. Datamon latter placed the copes in to highly influential jobs to increase his leverage over the world with little regard to the original children's' dreams or preferences. This also effected the chosen children's relationships, as Datamon does not know human customs only two of the children got married. Datamon's lack of knowledge also is what made the the chosen children's kids clones of the originals.
The third season was originally intended to be a continuation of the Adventure series and would have focused on the Seven Great Demon Lords and the Dark Ocean
- Let's see Daemon, one of the seven great demon lords was taken to the Dark Ocean where Dagomon ruled, Dagomon is actually the Ultimate level of another Great Demon Lord Leviamon. My guess is the writers specially the Head Writer of Tamers (who also wrote the Dark Ocean episode in Zero Two) had designs to make the third season a sequel that would have focused on the Seven Demon Lords and the Dark Ocean. The Sovereign Digimon would have had a larger role (as we only met one in Zero Two). Also the series would have been Darker and Edgier. But since the Final episode of Zero Two was too final, they had no choice but to make season 3 in its own continuity and drop the Dark Ocean and Demon Lords.
- If they wanted to continue with a third season of Adventure, they might have taken a page from The Matrix and explain that their victory over Malo Myotismon /Belialvamdemon and the subsequent epilogue was all an illusionary simulated reality by him as he conquered both worlds. Thus this season's heroes would unravel an ontological mystery and maybe even fight the previous Digidestined who mistakenly assumed them to be villains when they are actually trying to awaken them from Malo Myotismon's illusion. Maybe Ryo Akiyama might have been one of the heroes as well serving as a resistance leader to covertly undermine Malo Myotismon's rule.
Digimon Adventure 02
is a sequel to the Adventure of the children who travailed to the digital world.
- After the children returned form the digital world they told there story to the world. A tv studio decided to make a show but the children did not want anymore fame so the studio used older expy versions of the children instead.
- This might mean that the Adventure verse is the same as Digimon Tamers verse and that the show that Takato saw on tv was Digimon Adventure 02.
Takeru's hat is used to seal his dark personality he absorbed from Devimon.
TK is so nice and cheeful but when he removes his hat he laughs at Ken's actions. He becomes so violent that he beats up Ken and warns him that he will come back. This is because when Devimon died all of his data went to TK's head. Next episodes he is back to his friendly self again. This explains why Angemon always reappears whenever TK is having negative emotions. His objective was stopping Devimon's revival and if not, killing Takeru. This also makes his hatred against the dark forces a lot deeper and emphasizes how he is the "Hope" since he is the light fighting the darkness.
Davis is part gerudo and he is the son of Ganondorf
Dureing his fight with link his soul was riped from his body and thrown to earth. Din took pity on him and gave him a new body. On earth he meet a buteful Japenese women and got married. about 8 mounths latter Jun was born. She had more human in her which is why her skin is pail like Malon. Davis was born two years latter and he was one of the few male gerudo and had more of his father in him. After Ganondorf finds out what his son has bine up to he gives him trifoce of power to unlock Veemon's champion form and tells him some family history. At some point Davis is given the crest of darkness to reflects his fathers fall to darkness. When Davis gets marrid his children will be girls no matter how he gets marrid to Kari, Sora, Mimi, they will be girls.
The Virus that corrupted Kokomon from Hurricane Touchdown was the work of Dagomon
has his arm cut off and regenerates, a dark liquid of some sort is seen. When Magnamon and Rapidmon get inside of him, he is revealed to be filled with this liquid. This liquid might be the waters of the Dark Ocean. Out-of-Universe further explanation, Dagomon possibly was going to be the Big Bad
of the movie, but the higher ups prevented
him from being able to make any other appearance outside of his single cameo from Episode 13.
- Er the movie was released a week after episode 15 aired. Meaning it would have been in production before episode 13.
Predictions about what a Digimon Adventure 02 game adaption for PSP or other console would be like
- It will retell the entire story of Adventure 02, but with some minor changes with the intent of being Better Than Canon.
- It will also incorporate Hurricane Touchdown, The Revenge of Diaboromon, and some parts of the Digimon WonderSwan Series as side and/or bonus missions.
- Dagomon's role will be expanded upon in some way (by moving "His Master's Voice" (ep. 13) to after the defeat of the Digimon Emperor and creating a whole new Dark Ocean arc between the aforementioned Emperor arc and Yukio Oikawa arcs and ultimately make Dagomon an Unwitting Pawn of Vamdemon/ Myotismon).
- Ryo Akiyama will also make some appearance (via some sort of flashback missions involving Ken)
- Colleen O'Shaughnessey, Sora's dub actress said she was surprised that Sora ended up with Matt and guessed that she had been trying to make Tai jealous. What if she was? The first movie has Kari's line: "Sora's still waiting for [Tai] to call." This seems to imply that Sora had a crush on Tai but he never made a move. Maybe she thought that if she cosied up to Matt, it might persuade Tai to do something. However she wasn't betting on him reacting maturely to the situation. When Tai appears to be okay with her making cookies for Matt, she asks: "You're not mad?" This could be her actually being rather disappointed, having hoped that Tai would be mad. But since Tai was trying to be mature and reasonable, she assumed he didn't feel that way about her and decided to pursue Matt for real.
- Should be noted that those lines are dub only.
See "The Distant Finale never happened" above for more details about how this could work.
The Dark Ocean predates the Digital World; The Digital world is an intersection of the Human world and Dark Ocean
I base this theory on the events of Episodes 31 ("Opposites Attract") and 33 ("A Chance Encounter").
Kari and Davis are Takato's mom and dad.
He looks like a boy verison of Kari he has Davis's eyes and his partner has traits similier to Veemon
- Tamers takes place in a completely different universe. Unless you want to elaborate. Jossed.
- (sorry for any mispells) We have mutiple digimon that can warp realtey one of them happens to be a possible form for Veemon Ulforceveedramon future mode so it is possible that Ulforceveedramon attacked a vary powerful oppent the two fought ecother tooth and nail. In a final all out attack the powers open up a portal to the tamers universe pulling Kari and Davis through. In order to explan where veemon and Gatomon, Gatomon survied the battle and now serves as a guardien angle for Takato (example she repaired Grani so he could fuse with Takato and Guilmon. Now for Veemon you need to know the expaned cannon of digimon. The Guilmon and Veemon lines have a lot of intertwined forms so it is possible that Veemon was so badley injured that not even the Ulfoce could heal him. So he made a deal with Chaosgallantmon (pretty much the digimon anti-christ) and they fused togather. The resulting form Guilmon became Takatos partner this can also be supported in how Guilmon's forms look like a demonic verison of Veemon's (an example is Megidramon and Goddramon)
- Other than being a dino/dragon Digimon which is a staple of ALL main heroes in Digimon Guilmon has next to nothing in common with Veemon. He has much more in common with Agumon than anything. Baby Dinosaur, bigger proper sized dinosaur, Dinosaur with arsenal and then Gallantmon is a Royal Knight like Omegamon.
How to canonize the 3rd movie
This applies more to the dub where obviously the movie has to take place in canon because its connected to the other two and the dub name drops Will in other season two episodes. Bare with me. We know this has to take place after Storm of Friendship but before Davis Cries Wolfmon. Now in the movie Davis seems to already be acquainted with the Golden Digiegg (just do what I do) in the series when he appears everyone is amazed and shocked which shouldn't be if they met him before. So we know that the movie takes place after The Crest of Kindness and before Davis Cries Wolfmon.
Now why did Yolie not have Hawkmon armor digivolve into Shurimon who is a better fighter than Halsemon? Who knows. Other than the actual movie was in production before Shurimon's debut. Why did Davis never use the Golden Digiegg again? As we know in the series its because the Golden Digiegg turned back into the crest of kindess and was given to Ken. But what about in the movie? Well we see that Kokomon was reborn...on earth which isn't how Digimon work (see Wizardmon) My guess is the Golden Digieggs left Davis and Willis and were responsible for bringing Kokomon's egg to earth to be with Willis again.
Next big issue. How were Patamon and Gatomon able to reach Mega, let alone Gatomon being able to Digivolve to Angewomon at all when the powers to go to Ultimate were supposedly lost? T.K and Kari's digivices were reacting to something when Kokomon tried to capture them and told them to not intefer, my guess is that the Digivices picked up the Golden Digieggs which gave Patamon and Gatomon the power to not only go to Ultimate again but reach Mega. They needed Cherubimon to knock them down to release their powers and give Davis and Willis the Golden Digieggs.
This also justifies why in the show Magnamon struggled with fighting Chimeramon an Ultimate, but was able to fight against a Mega Digimon in the movie and seen as a superior choice than Seraphimon and Magnadramon, two HOLY mega Digimon. The Golden Digieggs power depends on its source. In the show it came from a crest, hence it was only roughly as strong as an Ultimate. In the movie it came from two Megas which is why it was as strong if not stronger than Megas.
- I just thought that Hurricane Landing took place post-series, with Ken... Simply being absent (maybe he was on a vacation somewhere else?). Yolei choosing Halsemon over Shurimon could just be explained as Halsemon having greater speed and maneuverability, which would really be more helpful against an opponent they know to possess flight abilities. Likewise, that explains why Seraphimon/Magnadramon wasn't present for the events of Final Temptation, and where they obtained one of the other six Digimentals they didn't obtain over the course of 02.
- Doesn't explain why Davis, Yolie, and Cody don't Digivolve their Digimon naturally which is suppose to be stronger than armor evolutions.
- Already asked and answered on Headscratchers: It's because they're idiots.
- To be fair Davis using the digi-eggs of Miracles gives them a Royal knight and he needs to DNA digivovle with Ken to have Veemon become Imperialdramon, but I can't say the same for Yolei and Cody. Maybe it is because they never made it to the mega level, because Magnamon has been shown to be a natural Mega by evolving from Paildramon and the PSP games have all of the first team including Kari and T.K.
- Magnamon from Paildramon? Where did you hear that?
- In Digimon redigitize decode a sequel to a remake of the first world game you obtain Magnamon from Paildramon I don't know the requirements but it is possible.
The Genyōsha (AKA The Dark Ocean Society) has something to do with... well, the Dark Ocean
The writer for the Thirteenth episode of Adv. 02, Chiaki Konaka, is a known writer for the Cthulhu Mythos, thus it can't be entirely coincidental that he may have taken some inspiration from a specific part of the Call of Cthulhu Role Playing Game. Also worth mentioning that there was an actual Dark Ocean Society in real life
Hikari's crest power was the reason why the Dark Ocean was unable to go after her at first.
Basically, when she had the power of the crest of light she was shielded from any evil spirits and when she gave up her power she became more vulnerable to evil spirits like the dark ocean.
Davis' lack of character development was weaponized by the authors in the final confrontation.
Unlike almost all the other characters in the first and second seasons, Davis never has any character development. His completely flat character is more or less called out as the reason the illusions by Malo Myotismon
had no effect on him. In one last bit attempt to make any sense of the plot after a lot of executive meddling, the writers at least took advantage of Davis complete lack of character development in the final battle in an almost parody/save of what could have been.
Another view is that TK /is/ the writer, one could assume that this was getting his last "Take That" at Davis when writing the series, causing a few extra plot holes as a result, and just giving him more screen time because it is Davis that's helping fund the publishing of his book.
Myotismon's Gotsumon was somehow revived with no memory of his past, and became Rosa's digimon
- He died in the real world. The much more powerful Wizardmon couldn't find his way back to the Digital World and the much much more powerful Myotismon needed to take residence in Oikawa's head and use an elaborate Xantos Gambit to get back to the Digital World. There is no way a very weak rookie level Digimon found its way back to the Digital World.
There's a perfectly valid reason the Dark Ocean plotline hadn't been continued.
The core theme in Lovecraftian Literature was the inherent powerlessness and pointlessness of humanity and human existence. Couple that with the light-gray themes of Digimon and we'll have gotten a very bleak downer ending, featuring a dead or worse
Digidestined team, a Kari consigned to an eternity of being Dagomon's Mother of a Thousand Young
, and a multiverse under siege.
Reviled and ludicrously optimistic though the ending was, the alternative would almost certainly have the end of the world
on a multiversal scale, continued by Dagomon and Zeed Millenniummon
duking it out for omniversal dominance.