Reviews Anime / Neon Genesis Evangelion

The TV series ending is a classic case of Broken Base. Years ago, I found an essay that argues that the TV ending sucked, and while I definitely don't agree with all of it, I do agree with some of its points (especially regarding the lack of resolution). I personally find that if you hold the very end of Episode 26 in abeyance, you can think of Episodes 25-26 as part of End of Evangelion.

Edit: My original link doesn't seem to work. If you want to read it, try http://web.archive.org/*/http://www.escaflowneonline.com/eva/ and click one of the older links.

The ending wasn't the way it was because psychobabble was the point of the show: it was (like everything before it) because of Anno's Creator Breakdown. End of Evangelion was a more over-the-top and (IMHO) even less satisying alternative. The ideal ending would be a mixture of both, which I hope the manga or the Rebuild movies can achieve.

1: Anno made Eo E to give the fans what they wanted... while simultaniously fucking their mothers. Sure, they get to see Asuka in an actual fight, and the violence was pretty cool, but EVERYBODY DIES. Except for... what, 2 people? 4, if you believe some of the "Asuka is Rei and Misato" theories.

2: The ending was great, in my opinion. It's mostly the early episodes I didn't like. It was like Gundam, on earth, with the world's saddest pilot. Then you realise his mother is dead. And his father only contacts his son when he needs something from him. And that people started shunning him from an early age, because of the rumors about Gendo (which, btw, are only partially true :P)

And then things start getting really dark. Shinji cripples his best friend, Asuka gets mind raped and goes into a major downhill spiral and Rei dies. And subsequently replaced. And then Kaji dies, and Misato gets depressed...

And suddenly, there's a break of sunshine. The darkness stops. Everyone acknowledges their problems, and Shinji decides that life is worth living after all. After seeing his mother die, being Asuka's doormat, seeing Rei die, being basically abandoned and emotionally neglected by his father and basically seeing everything fall to pieces... he decides life is worth living, and the walls come down. After a downward spiral into Mind Screw and Kick The Dog, this ending was very fitting.

You see, it isn't just about watching the characters. It's about relating, and getting into their minds. Putting yourself into their shoes. You see someone you care for deeply sacrifice their own life to spare yours. How do you feel?

...Of course, this is just how I view the series.

Evangelion is psuedophilosophy; junk food for those who have never seen real philosophy.

No, it really really isn't. There's a message there and it's a valid one, you just have to look hard enough to see it instead of being a condescending asshole and immediately writing it off as "psuedophilosophy" when you're not actually qualified to know the difference.

It also helps to have gone through depression. You can relate to Shinji, and it makes the ending that much sweeter.

No, it really really isn't. There's a message there and it's a valid one, you just have to look hard enough to see it instead of being a condescending asshole and immediately writing it off as "psuedophilosophy" when you're not actually qualified to know the difference.

I suppose emos would find this kind of stuff deep and thought-provoking.

Not neccesarily emos; someone who's gone through depression themselves, perhaps?

Depressed people aren't exactly in their best neurological state. Meaning, they most likely aren't fit to be philosophizing.

Well please. enlighten us, how would you define true philosophy, and how does EVA fail to live up to that standard?

Preferably something that involves a better connection to reality and actual human behavior?

Preferably something that involves a better connection to reality and actual human behavior

Which is actually what the show (and Anno himself several times) address. The references to Sartre, Schopenhauer and the way it takes on human nature is legit, there is no denying this. Second, Your comment on depressed people is hella stupid, considering that most famous philosophers are more or less pessimist/cynical (which is often the result of their research rather than any neurological disease). A self-proclaimed expert like yourself should have known that eveil.

So please. enlighten us, how would you define true philosophy oh pretentious troll of Tv-Tropes.

Which is actually what the show (and Anno himself several times) address. The references to Sartre, Schopenhauer and the way it takes on human nature is legit, there is no denying this.

Giving the lead characters ridiculously exaggerated personalities and mental issues based on personality disorders? It's like how the media typically portrays other mental disorders like autism and ADHD.

Oh, and the situation isn't really relatable to real life either, unless you've been conscripted to save the world before.

Second, Your comment on depressed people is hella stupid, considering that most famous philosophers are more or less pessimist/cynical (which is often the result of their research rather than any neurological disease). A self-proclaimed expert like yourself should have known that eveil.

Pessimist/Cynic =/= Depression. Try again.

So please. enlighten us, how would you define true philosophy oh pretentious troll of Tv-Tropes.

I'm pretty sure I already answered that.

Oh, and different opinion =/= troll. Now if I said "Ugh, fanboys always think having a different opinion is the same as trolling", that would be trolling.

Can you guys knock it off?

Just because you disagree with a philosophy that happens to be from anime doesn't discount it as a philosophy. And what you're saying is rather offensive toward people who've actually struggled with depression. Being in a depressed state of mind does not make your thoughts, opinions, and philosophies invalid. I found Shinji disturbingly easy to relate to thanks to depression I had at one point.

Just because you disagree with a philosophy that happens to be from anime doesn't discount it as a philosophy.

Correct. Failing as a philosophy discounts it as a philosophy.

And what you're saying is rather offensive toward people who've actually struggled with depression.

Being offensive doesn't make it any less true.

Being in a depressed state of mind does not make your thoughts, opinions, and philosophies invalid.

Correct. Having irrational thoughts, opinions, and philosophies makes them invalid. Which are more common amongst people suffering from depression.

I found Shinji disturbingly easy to relate to thanks to depression I had at one point.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is similar to those people who self-diagnose themselves with Aspergers.

Oh shite. eveil be trollin'

Are we actually arguing the validity of the philosophy/psychology behind Evangelion here? Let's face it, Evangelion is entertainment, it's not meant to be an intellectual exercise (if you wanted, you could write a Master's thesis on even My Little Pony... it doesn't elevate it intellectually). That, however, doesn't mean it can't speak to people who are going through depression.

The whole "depressed people = irrational people = people with invalid opinions" viewpoint is a very silly one. You're taking a broad group of people (at least 10% of the populous) and writing off their philosophies/opinions as invalid because of your silly generalizations. Irrational much?

"Oh, you happen to be depressed. Your opinions are invalid and that TV show you like sucks!" lolz

Are we actually arguing the validity of the philosophy/psychology behind Evangelion here? Let's face it, Evangelion is entertainment, it's not meant to be an intellectual exercise

Now tell that to everyone else in this review.

That, however, doesn't mean it can't speak to people who are going through depression.

Good for them. That doesn't make its philosophy any more valid.

The whole "depressed people = irrational people = people with invalid opinions" viewpoint is a very silly one. You're taking a broad group of people (at least 10% of the populous) and writing off their philosophies/opinions as invalid because of your silly generalizations. Irrational much?

I'm sorry I have to tell you this, but irrational opinions aren't really valid opinions.

"Oh, you happen to be depressed. Your opinions are invalid and that TV show you like sucks!" lolz

I would strongly question whether or not anyone in this review actually has depression.

Since when is depressed a synonym for irrational?

eveil is ALWAYS trolling. You could review a sunrise and s/he would camp out to argue its aesthetic inferiority.

Evangelion doesn't just namedrop philosophers, it has entire episodes based around concepts from Schopenhauer. Its characters are based on psychoanalytic theory. As for eveil's theory about irrationality not conducive to philosophy: Hegel would strongly disagree, and Nietzsche would appear to serve as an object refutation.

Since when is depressed a synonym for irrational?

When you start using the word clinically.

@psycher7 I can reference famous people too rather than making an actual point.

So we're making stuff up now, nice. That's my cue to eveil has already reached that I'm 110% right about everything and would rather die than budge a single inch point so it's better to just walk away. For anyone wondering, yes, that was an advice for everyone else.

^I suppose everyone has their own way of dealing with differing opinions.

Ok then, show me a research, or data of some kind that says that in all aspects, depression will always lead to irrationality. Don't get me wrong, depression can lead to irrationality, but it's not something that happens to such a high percent that it's deemed a synonym. And why is referencing suddently not a point? In fact I think I've even seen you using it. If someone said to me now that evolution is an unproven thing I could make a point simply by refering them to Richard Lenski or more specifically his e. coli experiment.

Clinical depression IS irrational sadness. It's not "Something bad happened to me so I'm feeling down for a while." It's persistent, can last for years, and interferes with your everyday life.

And why is referencing suddently not a point?

If you're going to reference, reference evidence, not famous people. Especially if they're philosophers.

S/he said that the famous person he was referensing (in this case Hegel) has something different to say about and I quote "eveil's theory about irrationality not conducive to philosophy". Also being irrationally sad (which isn't even the correct definition of depression) doesn't mean that all their opinions are irrational "I'm sorry I have to tell you this, but irrational opinions aren't really valid opinions." or their ability to philosophize, after all many phylosophers famous or otherwise were or are depressed at some point. Not to mention that Mr Mallard said that it helps to understand if you have gone through depression not necesariry still be in it.

Also being irrationally sad (which isn't even the correct definition of depression) doesn't mean that all their opinions are irrational

Yes, just most of their thoughts that stem from their depression.

or their ability to philosophize, after all many phylosophers famous or otherwise were or are depressed at some point.

Being depressed at some point doesn't mean they were depressed while philosophizing, being a famous philosopher doesn't mean your philosophy was rational or a good philosophy, and being depressed doesn't mean you can't be rational about things unrelated to your depression.

Are we even on the same page here? the point I'm trying to push foward is that being depressed doesn't inmediately invalidate your opinion because it doesn't necessarily means it will be irrational, that actually helps my point more than it does yours.

Why? because you said so? it's like depression is just a big pile of the same to you, that they're no variation, levels, cathegories, etc. You can be depressed about a single thing and just that one thing and have it affect your other thoughts, views and opinions, not to mention your daily life in the minimum. Hence everyone going through that situation will experience the same, in this case, that most of their thought will steam from depression is very closed minded.

But it does mean that it helps understand people going through it, as Mr Mallard was trying to point out.

For that statement to work (given your stance on the topic) all of their philosophies that were made while under the effects of depression would had to be bad and or irrational, remember you're the one going for the generalized absolute point.

Are we even on the same page here? the point I'm trying to push foward is that being depressed doesn't inmediately invalidate your opinion because it doesn't necessarily means it will be irrational, that actually helps my point more than it does yours.

Why? because you said so? it's like depression is just a big pile of the same to you, that they're no variation, levels, cathegories, etc. You can be depressed about a single thing and just that one thing and have it affect your other thoughts, views and opinions, not to mention your daily life in the minimum. Hence everyone going through that situation will experience the same, in this case, that most of their thought will steam from depression is very closed minded.

But it does mean that it helps understand people going through it, as Mr Mallard was trying to point out.

For that statement to work (given your stance on the topic) all of their philosophies that were made while under the effects of depression would had to be bad and or irrational, remember you're the one going for the generalized absolute point.

Why? because you said so? it's like depression is just a big pile of the same to you, that they're no variation, levels, cathegories, etc. You can be depressed about a single thing and just that one thing and have it affect your other thoughts, views and opinions, not to mention your daily life in the minimum. Hence everyone going through that situation will experience the same, in this case, that most of their thought will steam from depression is very closed minded.

You know, taking a point and stretching it to the extreme isn't a good way to argue. There's obviously a limit on what I meant by "thoughts that stem from depression".

But it does mean that it helps understand people going through it, as Mr Mallard was trying to point out.

Not all depressed people are the same.

For that statement to work (given your stance on the topic) all of their philosophies that were made while under the effects of depression would had to be bad and or irrational, remember you're the one going for the generalized absolute point.

No, that's just ridiculous. Your logical thought processes should still be working as normal most of the time even if you're depressed.

Exactly so that means that not all depressed people's opinions are irrational

Exactly, hence a depressed philosopher still quite capable of giving a rational and good philosophy. Which goes back to depressed people not always being irrational.

If that's all you wanted to say, then we've both been wasting our time here. You don't have to take what people say so literally.

sight, I think I already proved the initial point I was trying to make in comment 13368, thanks for showing us yet again your losing complex.