Blatant individual opinion that is based on speculation regarding the Morning War that we have no information about, and the entry even makes it clear that we don't really know what happened ("probably" tried to surrender). Quarians also did side with the geth, and were killed for it. The geth even admitted in the third game that they did not want to wipe out an entire species and let the survivors escape.
This smacks of someone trying to twist a trope away from its definition to make the geth look bad.
It's really not actually. Once the geth were through with them, the quarian population went from billions to a mere 17 million. And according to Legion, the quarians did NOT aggressively bomb their own worlds or cause major damage to them so the quarians somehow being behind it is off the table. You'd have to be extremely dense to think that the geth didn't kill off billions of civilians and harmless children with those things considered. The quarians attempted to commit genocide, the geth actually did commit genocide.
...
I am serious. This is my serious face.
I'd like to discuss two entries here: the geth entry for Woobie Species and this part of the quarian entry:
"After we learn all the things the old quarian government did in the Morning War (murdering hundreds of innocent people because they objected to state-ordered genocide and then blaming the geth for it all) in the eyes of some fans they veer more towards Jerkass Woobie"
I tried to delete this for the obvious logical fallacy- everyone involved in that has been dead for centuries and covered it up, so there's no way any quarian alive today could've known about it, much less participated in it. Yet that got deleted because "Jerkass Woobie is a fan reaction, not something objective. Fan reactions can be very irrational, and I've seen this opinion regarding the quarians. Ugly but true".
I have a problem with this. Mostly because putting up on the page and presenting it in a legitimate light makes it sound like the entry isn't meant' to make the position sound irrational. Furthermore, if this is apparently enough to label the entire species as a Jerkass species, why aren't the geth listed here as a Jerkass species? Any attempt to do so has been deleted (by the same guy who re-added the entry above). The heretic geth, who went out to commit genocide on everyone, were not the majority, but they were still a huge portion of their population. Likely much larger than whatever amount of high ranking quarian government officials and soldiers decided to murder the protesters and cover it up. To make it worse, while that was done hundreds of years ago and everyone involved is dead now, the heretic crimes were done in the present. The geth seemed to care even less about the heretics crimes than the quarians did about their ancestors- at least Raan expresses some shock when she learns this. The geth knew about that the heretics would go off to slaughter millions if not billions and didn't care at all. And the heretics' motivation was simple greed rather than Knight Templar-style paranoia like the old quarian government.
I can also bring up more reasons why some people hate the geth. Like, for example, how after the geth were through, a population of billions somehow turned into 17 million. Or how the geth take planets they don't need and shoot anyone who comes near them- even though they explicitly don't use them and acknowledge that the quarians basically need them- and then blame the organics. This all seems like they should be a Jerkass Woobie species, not a straight Woobie Species- heck, the page itself says that they're only the Woobie Species "to some degree", yet doesn't actually list why they're nowhere near a straight example (and there are a lot of reasons).
The point is, the geth have done just as much if not more to warrant the Jerkass Woobie (or just straight Jerkass) label, while the justification declaring the quarians a Jerkass Woobie species makes no sense.
Edited by 174.65.11.127 ...
Pretty flower
I deleted an example of Creator's Pet in regards to Liara. This is like the 3rd or 4th time I've done so, so I thought I'd open a discussion on whether she really does qualify or not to avoid any future Edit War. I say she doesn't, since to be a Pet she must fulfill all four points on the page.
- Hated by fans(The Scrappy) - Far from it, she's one of the most liked characters in the fanbase.
- Loved (or worshipped) by the writers - Very arguable. One of the devs did admit a while ago that Liara was his favorite character, but that is little proof in of itself. Her plot importance could even just be one of necessity (see below).
- Put into big scenes for no reason(Character Focus) - Not likely. She's literally the only squadmate from the previous games to be guaranteed to be alive, so her getting focus could be a case of necessity rather than preference. Contrast how Garrus, a permanent squadmate across all 3 games and could be dead by 3, still gets as many scenes to himself and about as many lines as Liara.
- Talked up by the other characters (Character Shilling) - Debateable but no. While yes, she does recieve a healthy amount of praise, it's hardly undue or excessive. Even then fan favorites like Wrex will still poke fun at her during the times when she does screw up or doesn't solve all problems.
Now, one could make a case for any one or all of the bottom 3 bullets, but by virtue alone of not being a Scrappy means she does not qualify. Opinions or evidence to the contrary are welcome.
Edited by Spirit #IceBearForPresident Hide / Show Replies
Looks like Door Hating Cat has repeatedly added in this example over the course of the last few months (since at least November). It doesn't look like anyone else has tried applying Creator's Pet to Liara. Although tropers who removed the example have all given edit reasons, I can't find any evidence that s/he has ever done so his/herself.
Edited by lrrose
- Agreed. Liara is quite beloved, even if a Vocal Minority of people who get pissed at her prominence exist.
- I do not agree. Liara, if she were hated, would be a textbook example of Creator's Pet. She has tons of extra material, a lot of focus is on her, her own DLC, etc. It was also the Lead Writer who said this.
- Not true. The story *could* have been written without so much Liara, quite easily. I agree this has to do partially with why she is emphasized, but I feel like it goes well beyond that, into favoritism.
- She is not talked up by the other characters too much. She's friends with the old squad. She is however, talked up by some of the extra material, and she is given a crazy amount of skill and experience well beyond what could reasonably be expected.
However, the lack of four, and especially one, disqualifies her from Creator's Pet. While some fans are annoyed, they are the minority.
Edited by helterskelter
- Not as loved nowadays but not enough to be considered a Scrappy, more a Base Breaker
- Definitely agree with this one, does have too much focus at the cost of others.
- Debatable, sometimes her presence is justified sometimes it isn't, swings back and forth too much to be called fairly.
- Again arguable; while the talking up isn't excessive in ME 3 it seems to have deliberately been given to Ensemble Dark Horse and Breakout Character characters to win fans over. Again, not enough to call it definitive.
My two cents on the issue.
Edited by ObsidianLord
- Generally seen positively, though she attracts quite a bit of vitriol from the Vocal Minority because of the Character Focus.
- Definitely beloved by the authors.
- Gets more focus than any other squadmate, and is about as iconic a character of Mass Effect as Commander Shepard. Plus, you can't get rid of her, and she's a squadmate (at least temporarily) in all three games. Even I find this problematic, and that's as someone who likes her.
- She doesn't really get shilled by the characters that much.
So no. Liara attracts more crap than most characters, and part of the crap is most certainly attracted because she gets more Character Focus than she deserves, but she's not a Creator's Pet.
A user by the title of Langdon2 has been removing this tropers attempt to edit a portion of the YMMV page; this troper did not feel it accurate to leave the description of "mixed to positive" as was, as it implies that their was none who felt universally negative and that the fanbases reactions were greatly improved, despite mass evidence to the contrary. This troper has tried repeatedly without success, and while some of the edits made to my entries on the YMMV page were entirely justified, this one seems to be yet another example of a fan who won't see another view.
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My two cents:
A negative reaction to the Extended Cut means that one finds it to be worse than the original endings. Many people don't see the EC as an improvement and many find it to be a satisfying ending, but very few seem to find it to be worse.
Reading tropes such as YouKnowWhatYouDid
How come all the And The Fandom Rejoiced entries were deleted?
Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours Hide / Show Replies
^Because the page says not to wick to it.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Crazy Awesome: Garrus in Mass Effect 2, beyond a shadow of a doubt. He held off a joint task force of three merc groups single-handedly for more than a DAY.
He's not crazy in any sense of the word. Every action he takes is rational and thought out. Never in a single point in the series does he ever show a hint of crazy. Over-zealousness, yes. Passion, yes. But crazy? Not even once, unless I completely missed something, and considering how I've poured well over a hundred and fifty hours into both games combined, I'm not inclined to think I missed anything. But if I did, I'll be happy to listen.
Crazy Awesome does NOT mean he's awesome in a crazy way. Crazy Awesome means he's insane but he's still awesome. Read the Crazy Awesome page please, as there is huge misuse of Crazy Awesome all over the Wiki.
Edited by battosaijoe Hide / Show Replies
I agree. In fact none of the listed characters are crazy- how the heck does Mordin qualify as crazy? Or Wrex? Or Zaeed? Not to mention Shepard. The whole entry is misuse.
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.
I was gonna get to those after we got done with Garrus, but you're right.
Yes, agreed. The misuse of Crazy Awesome here isn't a matter of difference of opinion; that's just not what the trope means.
Delete them, and leave a note on the page itself saying why. I can see this being added back in over and over.
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.
I'm gonna say wait just for a little longer. I respect The Other Steve and so I'm gonna wait for him to speak up before I go deleting.
In all honesty, I just did it cause the original guy who deleted it was just doing so as part of his campaign to get the page to agree with his opinions. Since this is a group consensus, I have no problem with it. Go ahead.
With Wrex, people probably got hung up on that time when he said that "Sometimes, crazy is the best way to go". I agree that he is not crazy.
Mordin is quirky. I don't know if he qualifies as crazy.
Shepard is not crazy, and neither is Garrus.
I am the one who added Zaeed there and I think there is some precedent. The way he non-chalantly tells Shepard those stories where he was "the only one who lived" suggest that he is quite morally detached, and his obsession with Vido was very unhealthy. That he was willing to let a factory full of people burn in order to pursue him, and then starts firing his gun at Vido's ship like a raving maniac if he fails to get him, only to turn on Shepard afterwards, is pretty crazy to me.
I'll buy Zaeed being insane. Mordin is borderline but I'd buy it too. Shepard? No. Garrus? No. Wrex? Definitely not.
Zaeed is a Heroic Sociopath, or even a Token Evil Teammate, but I don't think he runs on Rule of Cool like Crazy Awesome characters are supposed to.
Mordin is a very good scientist with a few social quirks. No way is that anywhere near Crazy Awesome territory. He does NOT run on Rule of Cool.
Edited by Falco "You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.
This entry has become the subject of an Edit War. Don't readd it without discussion.
- The geth could also be counted as Jerkass Woobie, if we take into consideration that they have killed billions of Quarians during the geth war, including civilians. The Quarian losing the war probably tried to surrender, but the geth killed them anyways. Also, take notice that although we can blame the guarian leader for their stupid decision to exterminate the geth, there are still some innocents in the quarian population. But for the geth being a Mind Hive every single geth is responsible for the genocide, so unlike the quarians there is no such a thing as a innocent geth.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman Hide / Show Replies