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Jun 15th 2016 at 9:17:20 AM •••

This got deleted because the natter indicates that it wasn't What an Idiot!. Except that the Natter is inaccurate. The situation was either "Commit the Mountain to violence or meet with the High Sparrow in a public, Holy space." The Faith weren't even necessarily trying to take her back for good, they were trying to meet with her. Maybe they would've detained her afterward. But she'll never know. Because she chose to refuse to meet with the High Sparrow, meet him with catastrophic violence, and never find out what that meeting would have been about. Because she's a Smug Snake. She gains nothing but the satisfaction of having won an incredibly minor squirmish, but she makes it very clear that she's not going to cooperate in the slightest.

Edited by Larkmarn Hide/Show Replies
Jun 15th 2016 at 10:20:51 AM •••

It's not inaccurate at all. The HS requested to speak with Cersei at the sept. Last time they spoke at the sept, the HS imprisoned her. She would have been monumentally stupid to actually honor the request of a blatantly shrewd old fart like him and pretty much be at his mercy there. And like the comment says, A: the Faith Militant started the violence and B: pretty much everyone knew about Frankengregor already. Sure, she obviously took enjoyment out of it (for pretty justified reasons, too), but going with them? Seems like a bad idea. Honestly, I'm surprised she didn't have Gregor slaugther the rest of them.

Edited by Tempus22
Jun 15th 2016 at 12:12:45 PM •••

Which I might agree with if they said anything "and come alone." But they didn't. She could bring Frankengregor. She now knows that the High Sparrow isn't a doddering old fool under her control. The situation has changed since then and she really needs every advantage she could get.

Instead she kills a random dude in a clear message of "haha, I can do anything I want." Antagonizing the faith got her into this mess. And she's doing more of it.

Jun 15th 2016 at 8:25:21 PM •••

Going straight to the enemy's headquarters where there are leagues more of those fanatics? Enough ants can topple a rhinoceros beetle, and not even the HS would send a hundred of his guys to come "escort" Cersei to his sept. Or if he would, at least Cersei doesn't think he will. And really, the message was more like "Leave me alone or I'll fuck your dudes up". Again, she didn't start it.

Jun 16th 2016 at 8:37:13 AM •••

See, I think at this point we're simply disagreeing over whether her action was stupid or not, but we're agreeing on the facts.

I think it's dumb that she consistently antagonizes everyone, even/especially if they control her fate. It's completely in-character, mind you, but it's hard to take sympathy with her for refusing to learn that maybe, once in a while, the slightest bit of compromise is a good idea. In this case, it's particularly Aesop Amnesia because for once she actually tried to work with people she despised before, but learned nothing of it.

Jun 16th 2016 at 11:01:22 AM •••

There's no good reason for her to work with the HS. He's a fanatic who manipulates Tommen, and she already knows that he doesn't care about whatever power Cersei thinks she has. Why would she even try to play nice with him, when he obviously knows all about what kind of person she really is? I know if I was in her shoes, I'd stay as far away as I could from that old bastard.

Jun 16th 2016 at 2:42:11 PM •••

yes but she could also keep the big undead knight secret from the sparrows, she didn't have to parade him around, send him killing a streaker and have him ripped out someone's head. She could have simply go back to her room and lock the door. She spent the whole season bragging her trial by combat is in the bag and never once she thought maybe they will move the goal post. Even when they stopped an army with a couple of words to her son. What makes it especially stupid in this episode is that it confirms she didn't plan HS not wanting to face the Mountain

Edited by trixus
Jun 14th 2016 at 7:15:08 AM •••

Pulled Broken Base. It's supposed to be "the audience is split in two in disagreement over this, and here are the two sides." Every example is just "This is a one-sided complaint." Or in Arya's case, "here are several one-sided complaints."

  • Broken Base:
    • After a particularly strong season (discounting the premiere), this episode is considered a step back and mostly filler, despite being almost 60 minutes.
    • Arya's storyline at the House of Black and White has become this from several angles. Was it just a waste of time? Is she a fully trained assassin now and if so, is that okay or too unrealistic given her short time there? Is it okay that she can suddenly leave the order just because she killed the Waif?
    • Jaime's plot is this again after last episode seemed to be salvaging it. His speech to Edmure is particularly divisive. Although it's complicated by being lifted mostly straight from the books, but within an entirely different context that shows that his characterisation in the show has completely derailed from the book's path and remains driven by his desire for Cersei instead of trying to become a better man.
    • Not everyone is happy with the Blackfish's offscreen death and Edmure's actual capitulation to the Freys.
    • Likewise, Tyrion's scenes trying to drink with with Missandei and Grey Worm are still held as taking time away from more important/exciting moments. To make matters worse, the Masters show up out of thin air on the shores of Meereen and their naval attack doesn't get to build up enough tension and sense of danger before Daenerys shows up to save the day

Edited by Larkmarn
Jun 14th 2016 at 6:35:30 AM •••

Moved this here:

  • Author's Saving Throw:
    • A lot of people weren't happy that the Brotherhood Without Banners had apparently descended into open banditry and slaughter of the innocent in the previous episode. This episode completely reversed that by revealing that the bandits were rogues and the actual Brotherhood quickly capture and hang them for their crimes.
    • Arya gets to redeem her embarrassing performance last episode by setting a trap for the Waif and deliberately leaving a blood trail to get her into it.

An Author's Saving Throw is when "An especially "brave" idea is set forth to turn a character on his head and change the status quo in a big way... and the fans revolt. The writer then does a retcon which seems openly apologetic. This is the saving throw. It assures the fans that the character either was not in control of his actions, or he was Actually a Doombot or events were not as they seemed." These examples do not qualify because nothing is being retconned or rewritten, this was already plotted in advance because the episodes are all produced at the same time.

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Jun 14th 2016 at 7:11:07 AM •••

Yeah. Definitely doesn't fit. The point of a saving throw is that the authors are reacting to something being received poorly. This was filmed, edited, and done waaaaaaaaaaay before they heard the fans complaining.

Jun 14th 2016 at 2:43:43 PM •••

so do we call it bait and switch or just not a trope?

Edited by trixus
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