Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Needs Help
, started by OldManHoOh on Sep 14th 2012 at 12:10:37 AM
beeruckzII
Should we make a "The Return of Doctor Mysterio" page now? Or should we keep waiting?
If you ask how I am, I'm just going to say "Normal."
So, the modern series Doctors have an image for every season, whereas the classic series Doctors don't. Having started to add some images for the classic Doctors, however, it occurs that some of the folders for the classic Doctors are so short it starts to make the page look a bit untidy. Since it seems a bit weird to have loads of images for the modern Doctors but none of the classics, I'm wondering whether it might be a better idea to have a single image for each Doctor (perhaps at the beginning of each Doctor's era, for instance)? I mean, it's not like we need to be reminded what, say, David Tennant looks like three times, after all.
Edited by DoctorNemesis
CrankyStorming
With the wealth of minisodes and DVD extras around recent series, the Eleventh Doctor section especially has become confusing to just skim through. Perhaps we should move them all to their own folder?
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With the minisodes and DVD extras moved to their own folder, it would be even more confusing to skim through ANY of the Doctors on the list because the adventures would no longer be in canon chronological order and important mini-episodes such as the Eighth Doctor's regeneration would be saved for the end. I had time, so I changed the sections back to the way they were before.
Edited by 108.226.164.88
For example, the Eighth Doctor's movie page used to continue directly into "The Night of the Doctor" at the Doctor Who index, which can be found on the bottom of the Eighth Doctor's movie page. This made sense, because chronologically, the Seventh Doctor regenerated into the Eighth, and then the Eighth Doctor regenerated into the War Doctor Now, if you go to his page AFTER "The Night of the Doctor" is moved to the "minisodes" section...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/DoctorWhoTVMTheTVMovie
...the Doctor Who Index at the bottom goes into "Rose". A person would need to go all the way to "Dimensions in Time" before the index on the bottom would lead to "The Night of the Doctor". This would not make sense because "Dimensions in Time" happens LONG before "The Night of the Doctor".
Now, if we go to any regular episodes of the Eleventh Doctor, the index page would not lead us to any important mini-adventures such as the one where Rory's father is informed of his son and daughter-in-law's "death" between "The Angels Take Manhattan" and "The Snowmen".
In short, the recaps page listed the episodes (for the most part) in the order they were released, with some liberties taken for the sake of continuity/chronology (like having the Eighth Doctor's movie lead into "The Night of the Doctor" lead into "The Last Day" lead into "The Day of the Doctor" lead into "Rose", thus establishing a narrative structure).
Now, if we used a minisode list after the regular episode list, one would need to go back-and-forth to know about the Sixth Doctor's "Fix-It With the Sontarans" or the Seventh Doctor's "Dimensions in Time" and the Tenth Doctor's "Born Again" and "Time Crash". A Troper might want a cohesive list of televised episodes in canon chronological order - a list that only exists here on TV Tropes (as far as I know). That is why it is best we arrange the episodes in the order they canonically occurred. One would not want to finish "The Time of the Doctor" and then see the Ninth Doctor regenerate into the Tenth during "Born Again", for instance. Likewise, one would not want to watch "The Night of the Doctor" after "Dimensions in Time" (since that is the order that the minisode list would go in if we used one).
Cranky Storming, I applaud your enthusiasm in editing, but this is one edit which does not work out.
Edited by 108.226.164.88
100% agree. I was just about to add "Night of the Doctor" to Eight's episode list, then noticed it's waaaay at the bottom. What's the point of having a list sorted by Doctor if we're not going to include all of them? (I notice that 'Dimensions in Time" is listed under Seven, and it's as much a "minisode" as the rest are.)
EDIT: And the "Children In Need" special taking place right after 10's regeneration is listed under 10 too.
EDIT 2: OK, so I Failed a Spot Check, but it still makes no sense. "Night of the Doctor" is listed under 11, because it's a prequel to "Day of the Doctor." Wat? It's an 8 adventure, by himself, so why list it under 11??
Edited by 108.223.217.200
Eh, I'm actually alright with the way it is right now (on November 1st, 2014). Ordering them by the day of release should be alright. Feel free to change it if you feel it would be organized that way - just defend yourself well and explain your reasoning.
Should this page be divided up into a subpage for each doctor? or maybe Classic vs. New Series?
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Might want to propose that here.
Should we maybe add an "Other Adventures" header for some of the Doctors? It could be at the bottom of each folder and document any major (Yes, MAJOR) appearances they make outside of their tenure (or even the show itself). For example, The Second Doctor folder would include 'The Three Doctors', 'The Five Doctors' & 'The Two Doctors' under a 'Season 6B' header underneath 'The War Games', or The Eleventh Doctor would have 'Death of the Doctor' either at the bottom of his folder or underneath Series 5 in its own header, when it originally was screened.
This may be beyond the role of a recap page, and add a bit too much complexity to it. However, considering there's already a "War Doctor" folder, which contains only Matt Smith-era episodes, I wouldn't be completely against it.
What's happened to Asylum of the Daleks? Why is it in Red?
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One of its subpages was cut. There's a glitch that creates a redlink when that happens. I did a null edit on the page; it's fine now.
I felt the title for The Day of the Doctor should be changed so it was more like The Five Doctors. But now it is constantly red and when I click it goes to the page from before. It seems I made a mistake by changing the title, so how can edits be undone so it can go back to how it was when rickied did it.
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You didn't make a mistake. However, the gimmick that makes links red and blue has just been redone so new pages are often showing up as red. The admin is working on fixing it.
That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
Could we remove the stub for the 12th Doctor? 1) It's just a stub, and won't be filled with ANYTHING for at least 5 months. 2) Unless the original poster knows something I don't, Matt Smith will continue to be the Doctor in season 8. 2A) If you're referring to John Hurt, we have no proof he's going to be number 12.
Edited by 216.99.32.44 Hide / Show Replies
I removed "Phantom from the Hex" because a) the BBC hasn't confirmed the episode titles yet and b) this title has been speculated for at least 2 (possibly 3) of the "TBA" titles. Moffat is known to have written the first episode of Part 2, but the title "The Bells of St John" has also been attributed to that. A full list will likely be made available in the next couple weeks as the airdate approaches. Also, Moffat and the BBC indicated last year that The Snowmen, the Christmas special, is episode 6 of the season, not a standalone Christmas special. I have no problem with it being listed separately because it aired on its own, but I adjusted the episode numbers in Part 2 accordingly. It's one reason why there is no standalone DVD release of the story.
It's super effective.
When the official website clearly (not to mention DVD releases, soundtrack albums, iTunes downloads of episodes) calls the Matt Smith series "Series 5, 6 and 7", I think that's grounds to get rid of this "S31" crap. Much as I'm less enthralled by the term "new series" given how long ago the first "new series" was, NSS 5 seems far more consistent and sense-making.
dpad.fm
Good god, can we please un-join all of the specials from the main season? It looks incredibly confusing, it mucks up what the actual season premieres are, it puts Blue Peter specials on par with proper episodes, and the numbering becomes completely useless.
It's super effective.
Why the hell are Night and the Doctor, Death Is the Only Answer, Good as Gold and Pond Life considered numbered episodes of S32?
Edited by OldManHoOh
Fixed the broken links in the first and second season recaps. The links were broken because the original uploader is transferring the videos to a new channel. Presumably the links to the other videos on the original channel will eventually need to be changed as well.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to link to uploaded episodes unless they're from official channels such as the BBC or Channel 4. The whole reason tardismedia moved to a new account is because people have been posting the links on blogs and so on — TvTropes is queen of link boosting — and the attention this draws gets them deleted.
Edited by LongLiveHumour
Okay, so both Xaris and myself put this link in and took it back out, so I'm not sure if it should be in the main page or the episode guide, but I'm putting it here: http://www.rimmell.com/bbc/news.htm - Basically, radio telescope operators have begun picking up the transmitted BBC TV signal from fifty years ago bounced off some big unknown retroreflective array of astronomical objects some 25 LY away, and some of the lost Doctor Who episodes are among the programming being decoded.
The date on that is April 1st, 2009, so I'm not really sure it needs to be included.
Re: The format for the new season's episode links
I've just added a link for "The Eleventh Hour"'s recap, using the format Doctor Who S31 E01 "The Eleventh Hour". My reasons are as follows:
- The Grand Moff is on record as NOT liking "New Series 5" to designate this season.
- "Even Newer Series 1" is just silly.
- "11.1" (as in the Eleventh Doctor's first series) is attractive, but would mean renaming ALL the past episode recaps, for consistency. Fuck THAT shit.
- "Season 31" is accurate, doesn't duplicate an existing season number, and doesn't require renaming anything. It is also cool. How many other series can boast of having got to season 31?
Word or Flip-Flop of God says that 1. was a misquote of sorts. Plus iPlayer, iTunes, listings and DVDs all use series 5. Should we change the titles to NSS 5 now (keeping the others as redirects)?
Edited by OldManHoOh
Personally I'd rather rename the new series so the numbering agrees with the old series, but that's just me.
Also, does anyone know why the indexing magic suddenly has DOCTORWHO in ALL CAPS?
When you edit a page, the edit history, etc. record your edit using the capitalization in the url, whether it be DoctorWho, DoCtOrWhO, DOCTORWHO, or whatever. If the page is an index, the indexing magic is updated with that capitalization too.
Apparently somebody edited DOCTORWHO instead of DoctorWho. I've just edited DoctorWho, and now the index is back to normal.
Edited by PaulA
Either way, it really SHOULD be one or the other. Not listing 1-4 as NSS 1-4 AND 5 and 6 as S31 and S32 (which incidentally go against what the DVD covers say)
What shall we do about the "meanwhile in the TARDIS" shorts?
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My vote would simply to incorporate it into the discussion of the episode it's most closely linked to, since it seems like both essentially function as 'deleted' scenes.
My vote would simply to incorporate it into the discussion of the episode it's most closely linked to, since it seems like both essentially function as 'deleted' scenes.
The thing is, it's a bridging point between episodes, so the first could apply to The Eleventh Hour or The Beast Below, and the second to Flesh and Stone or to The Vampires of Venice.
Just give them a page together like we've already done for series six's "Night on the TARDIS", minisodes.
It's super effective.
Anyone want to add Scream of the Shalka? If it fits anywhere?
Edited by OldManHoOh Hide / Show Replies
It's non-canon, so it doesn't "fit" anywhere, but it was notable, and does deserve it's own recap page. Similarly, The Curse of The Fatal Death was a notable, (and in my personal opinion, Hilarious) episode from whil the show was cancelled, and probably should have it's own page.
It's super effective.
I didn't see an on-screen title for the second half of the Comic Relief special. Was it really called "Time"?
Edited by OldManHoOh Hide / Show Replies
Yes, the title is at about 00.10.
It ain't over 'till the ring hits the lava.
I must have missed it the first time because the sequence went by quicker.
Daybreak Town's Deadliest Pastry Chef
The episode subpages aren't listed as being indexed! What's going on??
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Not sure. It seemed to be not indexed one minute and then working again the next.
So, how much RTD-era stuff does The Grand Moff need to very dramatically get rid of and/or destroy before it starts straying into Take That! territory? First the TARDIS, then the Sonic Screwdriver, and now the freaking Dalek designs? Which have, up to now, remained pretty much the same since the show started, even. (There's been some paint jobs and stuff, but they were using parts of the original 1963 "Mk I Daleks" all the way up through 1988.) And RTD kept fairly close to that. I kind of feel like there's a risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater if TGM keeps changing every little thing.
All of which to say, I don't think we need to start adding Take That! everywhere just yet, but does anyone else feel like that point might be coming up in the near future?
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New producers always make changes like that. The TARDIS control room and exterior in particular (not sure how much about the other two) have been redesigned over and over but are still recognisably the TARDIS. Not to mention, Russell was the one responsible for demolishing the TARDIS set.
Also, the Daleks were apparently inspired in part by the 1960s Cushing movie designs. And the reason for the Dalek thing was budget more than anything. Can you elaborate a bit more on what "parts"? Russell had a fairly radical design himself, and the new ones are thankfully still recognisably "Dalek", even with the change.
But I'm probably ranting, thinking too much. TLDR; It's certainly not as vicious as a Take That!.
Sonic screwdrivers and Daleks have also been frequently re-designed. While the Dalek replacement may have been a bit on-the-nose in this regard, to label it or the others 'Take That!' is, frankly, being just a little oversensitive.
Plus, if you apply a bit of Fridge Brilliance, it all makes sense; the Daleks in the new series up till this point have been presented as being sourced from something other than Dalek DNA (Humans in Bad Wolf / Parting of the Ways, Davros in The Stolen Earth / Journey's End, which are the most likely episodes those particular Daleks come from) which means that according to strict Dalek standards, they aren't Daleks.
Sonic screwdrivers and Daleks have also been frequently re-designed. While the Dalek replacement may have been a bit on-the-nose in this regard, to label it or the others 'Take That!' is, frankly, being just a little oversensitive.
Plus, if you apply a bit of Fridge Brilliance, it all makes sense; the Daleks in the new series up till this point have been presented as being sourced from something other than Dalek DNA (Humans in Bad Wolf / Parting of the Ways, Davros in The Stolen Earth / Journey's End, which are the most likely episodes those particular Daleks come from) which means that according to strict Dalek standards, they aren't Daleks.
Wait, no. The Dalek in "Dalek", the Cult of Skaro and the millions of Genesis Ark inhabitants, they weren't sourced from there and they look identical to the other RTD Daleks.
Although you could make the argument that the Dalek Supreme and Emperor Dalek resemble Moffat's new Daleks.
As I said, I certainly don't think we're in Take That! territory yet. (I'm very much enjoying season 5 and I don't foresee that changing, unless Moff had a psychotic episode or something in the middle of filming all this—which I doubt).
As to the Daleks, we can argue about paint-jobs for ages, but I don't think repainting a prop, that is exactly the same as it was before you painted it in just about every other respect, counts as a "redesign." Besides, as I also pointed out before, the parts of Classic!Who Daleks were so interchangeable that they were using 1966 parts throughout the full run of the show. Rusty did not change the overall design that much, either. He fiddled with the whisk, and did a couple things to the eye-stalk. But you can go straight from watching "Genesis of the Daleks" to watching..."Dalek," for example, and see that the overall look is very similar. I think the "casing" is plated on RTD's Daleks and rounded on the Classic!Who Daleks. That's...not what I'd call a major revamp.
Moff's are shaped completely differently. Moreover, they have a hump upon their backs. I don't mind the paint job (like I said, paint doesn't count), and I actually enjoyed that episode quite a bit (even the whole Power of Love bit), despite hating the new design. So, don't think that I hate the new series. I do love it and can go on at length about the things I love about it.
All that said, the Daleks are one point of a number of things that are being very blatantly changed by Moff from RTD's era. Up to and verging on including now the entire continuity of New!Who. People failing to remember "Stolen Earth/Journey's End" is a fairly fantastic change to the timeline. To be fair, a true Take That! would mean that Moff didn't like Rusty's show, which...I just don't see that as being the case. But it's starting to get kind of ridiculous. Is he planning on keeping anything?
Edited by JurassicMosquito
Speaking of this, I've been wondering ... The secondary (i.e., non-Doctor) characters of RTD's era, do you think there might be any chance of any of them showing up again? Because if not, that would be incredibly sad.
River Song and the Weeping Angels are from Russell's era, remember. Granted Steven wrote the episodes himself, but that's still something.
Incidentally, as of "The Big Bang", "The Stolen Earth", "Journey's End" and presumably "The Next Doctor" are canon again.
Edited by OldManHoOh
Can we do recaps of Big Finish audio adventures?
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The Russophile
I'm adding total numbers of episodes and transmission dates gradually; help would be appreciated.
For the love of God, stop readding "series Fnarg". It's just plain stupid
Why is season 31 marked as Recap/DoctorWhoS31E0XTitleName rather than Recap/DoctorWhoS31EXTitleName? None of the others put a zero in front of the single digit title.
Edited by 94.9.139.139 Hide / Show Replies
That would be because the troper who set up the links originally... erm... got it wrong. *is embarrassed*
(I use the SxxExx format to name files on my computer.)
Edited by Nightsky
So, uh, what do we do about the Adventure Games? Regardless of their quality, they are canon for this season, and Actual Plot Stuff does happen in at least City of the Daleks.
To keep symmetry with The Five Doctors, would it make sense to label The Three Doctors as a 10th Anniversary special (ie. Doctor Who10th AS The Three Doctors), and reorder the rest of season 10 accordingly?
Edited by 94.2.203.188 Hide / Show Replies
Also, I haven't seen it, but is Dimensions in Time really So Bad It's Horrible?
If memory serves, The Five Doctors was broadcast outside of a season as an actual special episode, whereas The Three Doctors was explicitly written for, broadcast in and considered part of Season Ten; they're both written around the anniversary but only The Five Doctors is actually a 'special episode'.
I haven't seen Do T either, but a large portion of whose who have seem to think it is, which may be indicative.
If memory serves, The Five Doctors was broadcast outside of a season as an actual special episode, whereas The Three Doctors was explicitly written for, broadcast in and considered part of Season Ten; they're both written around the anniversary but only The Five Doctors is actually a 'special episode'.
I haven't seen Do T either, but a large portion of whose who have seem to think it is, which may be indicative.
YES. DiT is... the only reason it's watchable is that it's so short. It has NO plot. It may in fact have an ANTI-plot, in that shit happens BECAUSE it would be the most random thing possible.
Seriously, it's bad.
Edited by Nightsky
The BBC is listing the 2023 specials as a separate series to the 2005-2022 era; it's been treated as a new show in all respects, with the season numbering reset.