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Jul 17th 2016 at 2:49:00 PM •••

I think we should change the rule about which to link to if referring to the "whole series." It doesn't make sense to treat the manga as the "definitive version" just because it's the "source material" when:

  • Adaptation Displacement is a common thing in media (you wouldn't suggest a trope example about The Shining the film automatically link to the book), and it was the case for a long time (for some people, it still is) with this franchise;
  • we know there's a huge difference in the plot, characters, themes and various other details with the 2003 anime, and so linking to the Manga page automatically is going to be needlessly confusing to people who automatically associate FMA with that version. Which is the case with most casual anime fans who grew up during the mid-00s anime boom, to give one big example.
  • the manga page is also the Brotherhood page, so it doesn't make sense to say "well it's the source material for both" when that page is not really just for the source material (the page image is from Brotherhood);
and most importantly:
  • it just creates confusion when it's used on pages that list separate examples from both versions. I combined the Anime page and Manga page listings on Fandom-Specific Plot, because they were listed apart in the Anime/Manga section, and when the manga section already links to the Manga/FullmetalAlchemist page, isn't it messy and confusing to also make that the main heading for all the FMA examples? Especially since, in this case, the majority of the examples are under the Anime/FullmetalAlchemist heading. So I decided to use the Franchise page, and yet I'm sure (from experience) someone is rushing in there to correct me and tut-tut me about the rules that just don't work in this case.

Long story short, with the way that most people think and talk about this series — where it's always divided between "2003 vs. Manga/Brotherhood" and many people have different ideas of what the "definitive version" is — and the way it's usually ordered on the wiki, it makes sense to make the main page to link to this Franchise page. "Manga is page is definitive version" makes sense for a lot of manga-based anime, even ones with multiple versions, but it doesn't here and just seems to create new problems.

Thoughts?

Edited by AnneOfCleves
Sep 10th 2011 at 8:35:51 AM •••

An idea for a fanfic:

What if it was Edward whose soul was affixed to the armor and Alphonse who had the automail limbs?

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Jan 17th 2012 at 11:36:58 AM •••

They wouldn't really be recognisable characters. Ed's guilt is based around his desire to get Alphonse's body back, Al's character the fact that he doesn't have a body. Take that out and you've got a problem.

Apr 22nd 2012 at 12:12:58 PM •••

What problem? Ed could just as easily blame himself for causing Al to lose his limbs while Al could blame himself for letting Ed be nothing but a soul stuck in armor.

UPDATE - Such a fic has been found:

Fullmetal Alchemist Threads Of Time

Edited by R.G.
Aug 9th 2011 at 12:28:06 PM •••

Removed The Elric Saga Shout-Out example and the Fridge Brilliance entry since Word of God says in the vol 15 (or 14, can't remember) omake that she's never read it.

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Feb 5th 2011 at 11:50:19 PM •••

Are there any examples of Mind Screw in the manga,the first anime and Brotherhood?

Edited by R.G. Hide/Show Replies
Feb 6th 2011 at 10:38:47 AM •••

Well, the first anime had the whole "AMESTRIS IS AN ALTERNATE EARTH! OUR EARTH SUPPLIES THEIR ALCHEMY WITH SOULS THROUGH OUR CONSTANT WARS!" thing going for it, which, while it made perfect sense to me, left a lot of people scratching their heads. I can't say as anything in the second anime really came across as a Mind Screw, though.

Jan 16th 2011 at 11:17:00 AM •••

The Crowning Moments of Awesome page won't take folders—I think it's overloaded. I suggest splitting the Anime moments from the Manga/Brotherhood moments.

...But I have no idea how that would work.

Oct 26th 2010 at 4:03:31 AM •••

Kimblee, affably evil? He didn't really seem that affable to me. In fact, he seemed to take great joy in killing people, which I can't really identify with.

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Oct 26th 2010 at 8:34:39 AM •••

Yes, but he's stylish, smooth-talking, and well-dressed. He should be on Evilly Affable, actually.

Jul 9th 2011 at 1:07:42 AM •••

Evilly Affable definitely. He fakes Affably Evil pretty well (one almost gets the impression that you're safe if you don't get in his way) but then subverts it to hell and gone once it's necessary.

Aug 31st 2010 at 8:32:32 PM •••

Could we make a Tropes page for the fanfic We That Are Young and it's sequel Have Never Seen So Much? giving the fact it's a one of the few Doorstopper fics I've seen in the FMA fandom and so deliciously crafted and Troperiffic I can't help but put in this request.

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Aug 24th 2010 at 9:35:13 PM •••

Actor Allusion: Hohenheim tells Edward "You ran away." (At least in the English dub of Brotherhood) Hohenheim is voiced, of course, by John Swasey, aka Gendo Ikari. It's pretty easy to connect two and two together, but then again this line was more or less in the Swasey-less original, so I'm not sure it counts. Comments?

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Aug 24th 2010 at 9:38:05 PM •••

I was thinking of adding a comment on Swasey's role in this serious, and also am not sure if he counts under the guideline of Actor Allusion- because while the line wasn't written for him, it wouldn't surprise me if he was cast in part because of the role association with Gendo.

Aug 22nd 2010 at 8:33:49 PM •••

I'm still a little confused on one matter:

When Ed sacrificed his Gateway of Truth, did he just lose the ability to perform alchemy without a transmutation circle, or he cannot do any alchemy at all?

Edited by DWay2 Hide/Show Replies
Aug 22nd 2010 at 9:02:12 PM •••

He sacrificed his 'gate'. He can't do any alchemy period.

Edited by Larfleeze
Aug 22nd 2010 at 11:01:28 PM •••

And I'm guessing The colonel,who used the stone to get his eyesight back, still has his ability to do alchemy without a circle?

Aug 19th 2010 at 3:16:49 PM •••

This Troper just had a massive BSOD after watching Brotherhood for the second time, up to Beyond The Inferno. He realizes that people love Greed and feels this is all well and good, but he has just fallen in love with all of the other Homunculi save Sloth, and he is deeply, deeply disturbed.

Is it possible that all of the Homunculi are actually intended to be sympathetic characters in some manner? I raise this question just after watching Envy kill herself after realizing that Edward actually understood what Envy's problem was. I started thinking back to the deaths of all of the Homunculi, and now can't help but feel sympathy for every single one of them. There's a sliding scale of course, my sympathy for the Homunculi scales with the sins thrust upon them. In the anime, Lust didn't really have time to show more character than a halibut. Everyone else in the anime had time to develop their own distinct personalities, and garner some level of sympathy.

Gluttony was a child whose sister was murdered, and she appeared to be his only source of guidance. His emotions were always simple and easy to understand. The more contrived things get though, the more sympathy I have. Envy truly was jealous of people's ability to cope with any burden or sorrow, something s/he clearly didn't have the strength or courage to do, right up to the end when someone finally understood his/her pain, and s/he could've reached out for some solace. Wrath was most hateful toward people's inconsistencies, and expressed respect and even grudging admiration whenever anyone he met demonstrated resolve of some sort. Even Pride had a specific reason to do the things he did, and demonstrated a disturbingly familiar method of rationalizing horrible actions that even other complete monsters in the series bawked at.

So just would you react to how this Troper tries to sympathize with The Homunculi? They were shards of the personality of the Dwarf In The Flask, forced into being and cursed with overwhelming desires that maybe could've been reconciled, but who could they turn to for guidance? Their father despised their qualities so completely that he cast them off in an effort to make himself a more perfect individual. With a father like that, who needs friendship or guidance? All of their abilities and preconceptions were handed to them by someone they owed their lives to, but who by all accounts hated them in every way imaginable. They couldn't relate to people, and they couldn't relate to their father, whom by the time Wrath was created likely had made it impossible for the Homunculi to communicate with him in a way he could understand. So those who could bonded with each other, in ways that actually make sense. The exceptions are there of course: Greed because he didn't have any inclination to bond with those he could admit were his equals/superiors, and Sloth because he tries to avoid doing anything, ever, all the time. Still, even amongst one another, they either couldn't ever cope with their passions, or couldn't find a way to confide in someone and share their pain.

Am I innately wrong to think of these characters this way in some manner I have missed? Please explain how, if so.

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Aug 19th 2010 at 6:00:19 PM •••

If you're sympathizing with Manga Envy at all (the guy who gets his kicks from starting genocides) there is something seriously wrong with you. Draco in Leather Pants BS aside there is no reason to see most of the homunculi as anything other than Complete Monsters. Having a Morality Pet or a Freudian Excuse does NOT prevent them from being utter bastards who deserved to die.

Edited by Larfleeze
Aug 19th 2010 at 6:24:49 PM •••

Solely anime Envy. I haven't read the Manga, though after watching the series twice now, I must rectify this.

Aug 24th 2010 at 9:47:40 PM •••

^^I sort of agree, but wouldn't go quite that far. The series clearly expected the viewers/readers to show them some sympathy, since to varying degrees, they all tended toward Alas, Poor Villain. I tend to look at them in the same kind of way I'd view a rabid dog- it's sad for them to be killed because they can't help themselves, but there's no way they could be allowed to live.

Another issue which is kind of in the background is the fact that because they run on philosopher's stones, as long as a homunculus lives (which could forever), the souls inside of their stones are trapped in a hellish And I Must Scream. So, even if they were all as nice or nicer than Greed, allowing them to live would still be really problematic.

Jul 9th 2011 at 1:06:30 AM •••

As long as by sympathise you mean just that and not "want them to win" there's nothing wrong with that. Even manga!Envy is rather pitiable once you consider that he/she/it/they could never be anything more than what it was. If it's pity that's fine. If it's more than that, you may have issues.

Nov 25th 2011 at 3:31:45 PM •••

Indeed, why would anyone in their right mind want the Homunculi to win? xD I completely sympathize with the Homunculi. These guys are Alas, Poor Villain at it's finest. Even Father could count as that. Agreeing with Jordan up there, they shouldn't be allowed to live. ... Well, except Greed. He actually has morals compared to some of the others, like Lust or Envy. (Sadistic palmtree...)

Edited by FullmetalSonicfan
Aug 5th 2010 at 8:44:29 AM •••

Okay, none of the One Manga links work. Might want to work on replacing those. I don't visit this page often, but I noticed when I was browsing this morning.

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Aug 22nd 2010 at 11:03:55 PM •••

I have a feeling it'll focus on at least one the Elrics' [[spoiler journey to the other countries outside of Armestris]].

Jun 30th 2010 at 12:41:19 PM •••

Under Chekov's Boomerang, it mentions Kimblee's Stone being used to restore Roy's sight. I'm pretty sure the Stone Marco gave him was the same one he showed Ed, Al, and Armstrong in Chapter 8 - they made a big deal out of it being in a liquid form, and Kimblee's Stone was a crystal. Is there anything I missed that says otherwise?

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Jun 30th 2010 at 1:10:49 PM •••

Take a look: http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/108/065/

That's clearly Kimblee's first stone.

Now this: http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/108/069/

Ling has Marco's liquid stone. Presumably Lust gave it to the Gold Toothed Doctor when she kidnapped Marco.

Edited by Larfleeze
Jun 30th 2010 at 4:00:12 PM •••

Lust didn't kidnap Marcoh - she just threatened him and let him stay. Envy and Gluttony kidnapped Marcod later, and Gluttony found the Stone Marcoh had, and they took it.

Jun 30th 2010 at 4:08:22 PM •••

Meh been awhile since I read anything before Briggs...

Point still stands anyway.

Jun 27th 2010 at 3:08:03 AM •••

So was reading back through the last few chapters today, and as I was going through the Scar vs Wrath bout in chapter 103, I got to thinking about Wrath's entry for his Death by Irony. It's a really big mess, as just about EVERYTHING directly connected to it is, in some form, ironic — though some things are more subtle than others. Notably:

  • His final battle isn't one of malice or personal vengeance; rather, Wrath is no longer needed and is bleeding out so he decides to enjoy one last glorious battle before he dies.
  • His final opponent is Scar, who may be justified in seeking revenge. Scar, however, is more concerned with getting to the center of the rentanjutsu circle; Pride just happens to be in the way.
  • During the fight, Wrath admits that it's actually comforting not to be fighting for any reasons of malice or hatred.
  • Wrath, with his ultimate eye, gets blinded by sunlight as the eclipse passes — giving Scar a much-needed opening.
  • In his final moment, he's confronted by Lan Fan, who might also be justified in seeking revenge. Instead she shows compassion, asking if he has any last words for his wife or his friends.
  • His final words: "It was a good life. A life worth living."
  • Once the whole incident with Father concludes, a cover story turns him into a martyr for his country — Wrath, after death, is remembered by the people he despised with love.

No wonder it's so hard to pin down Wrath's death-by-irony — it's all over the place!

Well, that's my thoughts on it anyway. If anyone else has something to add to this, I'd love to read it.

Jun 13th 2010 at 4:28:07 AM •••

Current page says Truth comes under the Walls have Eyes, 'Truth' is actually the character of light whilst the darkness with eyes is the 'Gate of Truth'. Not made clear until last chapter (possibly fringe brilliance since we have seen Truth as malevolent but is actually a secret test of character).

Edited by AzureJahk
Jun 10th 2010 at 4:48:44 PM •••

Any thoughts on the end of the manga?

I personally loved it. It was an excellent end to an amazing series. I'm sad that it ended, but really glad that I was along for the ride.

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Jun 10th 2010 at 5:05:08 PM •••

Great ending to a greater manga. Absolutely fantastic.

Not just one of the best shonen mangas, but easily one of the greatest mangas of all time period.

Jun 13th 2010 at 4:45:38 AM •••

I'm a little disapointed about Selim's Karma houdini, especially since Greed died. He killed Kimbley, the Briggs soliders in the tunnel, took Roy's eyes and even ate Gluttony but he gets to live whilst good old Greed dies...twice. Also I reckon Izumi should've used the same trick as Ed to get her organs back (she doesn't even use alchemy much anyway).

Jun 13th 2010 at 5:36:16 AM •••

Selim gets to live. Pride, on the other hand, had a quite spectacularly horrible comeuppance.

Karma Houdini doesn't really count when the person who's still alive bears no resemblance to the person who committed the crimes.

Jun 13th 2010 at 5:45:59 AM •••

Regarding Izumi, if she sacrificed her gate she wouldn't have been able to get back (Roy categorically states this is why he didn't try it to get his sight back). Ed could only do it because he had the connection to Al's gate, which is how they both got back to their dimension/world/whatever.

Jun 16th 2010 at 8:46:04 AM •••

I was disappointed that it was a bit too sappy and perfect, plus I really wished that Al's return home was given more pages. I've already aired some of my dislikes about it on Just Bugs Me - Al recovering so fast, Roy not mentioning Havoc - but it was otherwise great.

Frankly, I thought the solution to getting Al back was genius. Trust Edward to find that solution that was in everyone's face the whole time.

Jun 24th 2010 at 8:35:45 PM •••

The ending was great, but there was no romantic payoff whatsoever, aside from Ed/Winry, and they didn't even kiss! *grumble grumble*

Jun 24th 2010 at 9:31:52 PM •••

He proposed to her! And she accepted!

Jun 25th 2010 at 8:41:46 AM •••

Uh, no ring involved. The conversation was cute, but just seemed like it was missing something.

Edited by Orpheus
Jun 30th 2010 at 8:22:08 AM •••

Maybe Arakawa knows she can't write romance well, so she didn't try for anything too showy? I mean, would you rather have something small but pretty okay, or something bigger that was awful?

Jun 30th 2010 at 8:27:40 AM •••

Your Mileage May Vary as I thought it was brilliantly done. They had freaking kids. Fair to say they kissed at least once. I mean geez what more do you want?

This isn't some shoujo anime. Fan Dumb at its finest.

Edited by Larfleeze
Nov 15th 2010 at 5:02:35 PM •••

Hmm, that's still non reason to remove my The Big Damn Kiss: averted entry. Yes, of course they kissed, but there isn't one in the manga or anime.

Mar 7th 2010 at 12:16:38 AM •••

Disputing one character's Complete Monster status

Referring to Shou Tucker. He does not appear pleased prior to what he does to his own daughter. I'll grant that he was being selfish, but he does have a Freudian Excuse, and like the show points out, he didn't think things through. One example being his manor not having a woman's touch, not exactly what I call much different from being poor.

I think if anything he crossed the Moral Event Horizon with the Chimera transmutations, and feeling he had to go through with the one for Nina and Alexander caused a Villainous Breakdown.

Edited by MasterKnight Hide/Show Replies
Jul 9th 2011 at 1:08:53 AM •••

Tucker in the anime I have no problem cutting. Manga!Tucker though is a truly soulless bastard. It might be possible to read some remorse into his actions, but that takes some serious squinting. Envy and Pride manage to be more sympathetic, as do genuine Complete Monsters like Kimblee.

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