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I think we should change the rule about which to link to if referring to the "whole series." It doesn't make sense to treat the manga as the "definitive version" just because it's the "source material" when:
Long story short, with the way that most people think and talk about this series — where it's always divided between "2003 vs. Manga/Brotherhood" and many people have different ideas of what the "definitive version" is — and the way it's usually ordered on the wiki, it makes sense to make the main page to link to this Franchise page. "Manga is page is definitive version" makes sense for a lot of manga-based anime, even ones with multiple versions, but it doesn't here and just seems to create new problems.
An idea for a fanfic:
What if it was Edward whose soul was affixed to the armor and Alphonse who had the automail limbs?
They wouldn't really be recognisable characters. Ed's guilt is based around his desire to get Alphonse's body back, Al's character the fact that he doesn't have a body. Take that out and you've got a problem.
What problem? Ed could just as easily blame himself for causing Al to lose his limbs while Al could blame himself for letting Ed be nothing but a soul stuck in armor.
UPDATE - Such a fic has been found:
Fullmetal Alchemist Threads Of Time
Removed The Elric Saga Shout-Out example and the Fridge Brilliance entry since Word of God says in the vol 15 (or 14, can't remember) omake that she's never read it.
Are there any examples of Mind Screw in the manga,the first anime and Brotherhood?
Well, the first anime had the whole "AMESTRIS IS AN ALTERNATE EARTH! OUR EARTH SUPPLIES THEIR ALCHEMY WITH SOULS THROUGH OUR CONSTANT WARS!" thing going for it, which, while it made perfect sense to me, left a lot of people scratching their heads. I can't say as anything in the second anime really came across as a Mind Screw, though.
The Crowning Moments of Awesome page won't take folders—I think it's overloaded. I suggest splitting the Anime moments from the Manga/Brotherhood moments.
...But I have no idea how that would work.
Kimblee, affably evil? He didn't really seem that affable to me. In fact, he seemed to take great joy in killing people, which I can't really identify with.
Yes, but he's stylish, smooth-talking, and well-dressed. He should be on Evilly Affable, actually.
Evilly Affable definitely. He fakes Affably Evil pretty well (one almost gets the impression that you're safe if you don't get in his way) but then subverts it to hell and gone once it's necessary.
Could we make a Tropes page for the fanfic We That Are Young and it's sequel Have Never Seen So Much? giving the fact it's a one of the few Doorstopper fics I've seen in the FMA fandom and so deliciously crafted and Troperiffic I can't help but put in this request.
Just do it yourself.
Actor Allusion: Hohenheim tells Edward "You ran away." (At least in the English dub of Brotherhood) Hohenheim is voiced, of course, by John Swasey, aka Gendo Ikari. It's pretty easy to connect two and two together, but then again this line was more or less in the Swasey-less original, so I'm not sure it counts. Comments?
I was thinking of adding a comment on Swasey's role in this serious, and also am not sure if he counts under the guideline of Actor Allusion- because while the line wasn't written for him, it wouldn't surprise me if he was cast in part because of the role association with Gendo.
I'm still a little confused on one matter:
When Ed sacrificed his Gateway of Truth, did he just lose the ability to perform alchemy without a transmutation circle, or he cannot do any alchemy at all?
He sacrificed his 'gate'. He can't do any alchemy period.
And I'm guessing The colonel,who used the stone to get his eyesight back, still has his ability to do alchemy without a circle?
Very probably, yes.
This Troper just had a massive BSOD after watching Brotherhood for the second time, up to Beyond The Inferno. He realizes that people love Greed and feels this is all well and good, but he has just fallen in love with all of the other Homunculi save Sloth, and he is deeply, deeply disturbed.
Is it possible that all of the Homunculi are actually intended to be sympathetic characters in some manner? I raise this question just after watching Envy kill herself after realizing that Edward actually understood what Envy's problem was. I started thinking back to the deaths of all of the Homunculi, and now can't help but feel sympathy for every single one of them. There's a sliding scale of course, my sympathy for the Homunculi scales with the sins thrust upon them. In the anime, Lust didn't really have time to show more character than a halibut. Everyone else in the anime had time to develop their own distinct personalities, and garner some level of sympathy.
Gluttony was a child whose sister was murdered, and she appeared to be his only source of guidance. His emotions were always simple and easy to understand. The more contrived things get though, the more sympathy I have. Envy truly was jealous of people's ability to cope with any burden or sorrow, something s/he clearly didn't have the strength or courage to do, right up to the end when someone finally understood his/her pain, and s/he could've reached out for some solace. Wrath was most hateful toward people's inconsistencies, and expressed respect and even grudging admiration whenever anyone he met demonstrated resolve of some sort. Even Pride had a specific reason to do the things he did, and demonstrated a disturbingly familiar method of rationalizing horrible actions that even other complete monsters in the series bawked at.
So just would you react to how this Troper tries to sympathize with The Homunculi? They were shards of the personality of the Dwarf In The Flask, forced into being and cursed with overwhelming desires that maybe could've been reconciled, but who could they turn to for guidance? Their father despised their qualities so completely that he cast them off in an effort to make himself a more perfect individual. With a father like that, who needs friendship or guidance? All of their abilities and preconceptions were handed to them by someone they owed their lives to, but who by all accounts hated them in every way imaginable. They couldn't relate to people, and they couldn't relate to their father, whom by the time Wrath was created likely had made it impossible for the Homunculi to communicate with him in a way he could understand. So those who could bonded with each other, in ways that actually make sense. The exceptions are there of course: Greed because he didn't have any inclination to bond with those he could admit were his equals/superiors, and Sloth because he tries to avoid doing anything, ever, all the time. Still, even amongst one another, they either couldn't ever cope with their passions, or couldn't find a way to confide in someone and share their pain.
Am I innately wrong to think of these characters this way in some manner I have missed? Please explain how, if so.
If you're sympathizing with Manga Envy at all (the guy who gets his kicks from starting genocides) there is something seriously wrong with you. Draco in Leather Pants BS aside there is no reason to see most of the homunculi as anything other than Complete Monsters. Having a Morality Pet or a Freudian Excuse does NOT prevent them from being utter bastards who deserved to die.
Solely anime Envy. I haven't read the Manga, though after watching the series twice now, I must rectify this.
^^I sort of agree, but wouldn't go quite that far. The series clearly expected the viewers/readers to show them some sympathy, since to varying degrees, they all tended toward Alas, Poor Villain. I tend to look at them in the same kind of way I'd view a rabid dog- it's sad for them to be killed because they can't help themselves, but there's no way they could be allowed to live.
Another issue which is kind of in the background is the fact that because they run on philosopher's stones, as long as a homunculus lives (which could forever), the souls inside of their stones are trapped in a hellish And I Must Scream. So, even if they were all as nice or nicer than Greed, allowing them to live would still be really problematic.
As long as by sympathise you mean just that and not "want them to win" there's nothing wrong with that. Even manga!Envy is rather pitiable once you consider that he/she/it/they could never be anything more than what it was. If it's pity that's fine. If it's more than that, you may have issues.
Indeed, why would anyone in their right mind want the Homunculi to win? xD
I completely sympathize with the Homunculi. These guys are Alas, Poor Villain at it's finest. Even Father could count as that.
Agreeing with Jordan up there, they shouldn't be allowed to live.
... Well, except Greed. He actually has morals compared to some of the others, like Lust or Envy. (Sadistic palmtree...)
Okay, none of the One Manga links work. Might want to work on replacing those. I don't visit this page often, but I noticed when I was browsing this morning.
That's because One Manga has been shut down.
Brotherhood follow-up movie announced! Discuss.
I swear to God if they go to Germany...
I have a feeling it'll focus on at least one the Elrics' [[spoiler journey to the other countries outside of Armestris]].
Under Chekov's Boomerang, it mentions Kimblee's Stone being used to restore Roy's sight. I'm pretty sure the Stone Marco gave him was the same one he showed Ed, Al, and Armstrong in Chapter 8 - they made a big deal out of it being in a liquid form, and Kimblee's Stone was a crystal. Is there anything I missed that says otherwise?
Take a look: http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/108/065/
That's clearly Kimblee's first stone.
Now this: http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/108/069/
Ling has Marco's liquid stone. Presumably Lust gave it to the Gold Toothed Doctor when she kidnapped Marco.
Lust didn't kidnap Marcoh - she just threatened him and let him stay. Envy and Gluttony kidnapped Marcod later, and Gluttony found the Stone Marcoh had, and they took it.
Meh been awhile since I read anything before Briggs...
Point still stands anyway.
So was reading back through the last few chapters today, and as I was going through the Scar vs Wrath bout in chapter 103, I got to thinking about Wrath's entry for his Death by Irony. It's a really big mess, as just about EVERYTHING directly connected to it is, in some form, ironic — though some things are more subtle than others. Notably:
No wonder it's so hard to pin down Wrath's death-by-irony — it's all over the place!
Well, that's my thoughts on it anyway. If anyone else has something to add to this, I'd love to read it.
Current page says Truth comes under the Walls have Eyes, 'Truth' is actually the character of light whilst the darkness with eyes is the 'Gate of Truth'. Not made clear until last chapter (possibly fringe brilliance since we have seen Truth as malevolent but is actually a secret test of character).
Any thoughts on the end of the manga?
I personally loved it. It was an excellent end to an amazing series. I'm sad that it ended, but really glad that I was along for the ride.
Great ending to a greater manga. Absolutely fantastic.
Not just one of the best shonen mangas, but easily one of the greatest mangas of all time period.
I'm a little disapointed about Selim's Karma houdini, especially since Greed died. He killed Kimbley, the Briggs soliders in the tunnel, took Roy's eyes and even ate Gluttony but he gets to live whilst good old Greed dies...twice. Also I reckon Izumi should've used the same trick as Ed to get her organs back (she doesn't even use alchemy much anyway).
Selim gets to live. Pride, on the other hand, had a quite spectacularly horrible comeuppance.
Karma Houdini doesn't really count when the person who's still alive bears no resemblance to the person who committed the crimes.
Regarding Izumi, if she sacrificed her gate she wouldn't have been able to get back (Roy categorically states this is why he didn't try it to get his sight back). Ed could only do it because he had the connection to Al's gate, which is how they both got back to their dimension/world/whatever.
I was disappointed that it was a bit too sappy and perfect, plus I really wished that Al's return home was given more pages. I've already aired some of my dislikes about it on Just Bugs Me - Al recovering so fast, Roy not mentioning Havoc - but it was otherwise great.
Frankly, I thought the solution to getting Al back was genius. Trust Edward to find that solution that was in everyone's face the whole time.
The ending was great, but there was no romantic payoff whatsoever, aside from Ed/Winry, and they didn't even kiss! *grumble grumble*
He proposed to her! And she accepted!
Uh, no ring involved. The conversation was cute, but just seemed like it was missing something.
Maybe Arakawa knows she can't write romance well, so she didn't try for anything too showy? I mean, would you rather have something small but pretty okay, or something bigger that was awful?
Your Mileage May Vary as I thought it was brilliantly done. They had freaking kids. Fair to say they kissed at least once. I mean geez what more do you want?
This isn't some shoujo anime. Fan Dumb at its finest.
Hmm, that's still non reason to remove my The Big Damn Kiss: averted entry. Yes, of course they kissed, but there isn't one in the manga or anime.
Disputing one character's Complete Monster status
Referring to Shou Tucker. He does not appear pleased prior to what he does to his own daughter. I'll grant that he was being selfish, but he does have a Freudian Excuse, and like the show points out, he didn't think things through. One example being his manor not having a woman's touch, not exactly what I call much different from being poor.
I think if anything he crossed the Moral Event Horizon with the Chimera transmutations, and feeling he had to go through with the one for Nina and Alexander caused a Villainous Breakdown.
Tucker in the anime I have no problem cutting. Manga!Tucker though is a truly soulless bastard. It might be possible to read some remorse into his actions, but that takes some serious squinting. Envy and Pride manage to be more sympathetic, as do genuine Complete Monsters like Kimblee.
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