Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
Interesting question. My take:
- If the show doesn't use their real names, there's no reason why our Character/ pages should. (This should be general Reality TV policy, really, as it helps position them as characters to be troped and not real people.)
- If an individual was doxxed, then our pages should not list their real names. But if they freely market themselves with their real names, then we can follow suit with our Creator/ pages.
My take is that, in general, we don't care about what other wikis or communities are doing because we're not them. (I admit that this mostly stems from a certain wiki's users raiding us and acting generally "villainous," but it extends to other cases as well.)
Withholding the "cast list" makes little sense. By signing up for and appearing on a reality TV show, these people become semi-public figures and we can treat them as we do any other actors.
I agree with Synchronicity.
Celebrities are still people. If the information wasn't deliberately made public we shouldn't use it. It's not necessary if their names aren't used on the show and that's all they're known for.
Edited by Walkinshadows
That was my feeling as well, Synchronicity. I think I'm going to hold off on cleaning up Creator/ pages until the RPDR wiki is done with their cleanup (from the looks of it, there's been some work done already, but it's still very unfinished) because I'm not sure what their standards are for "has a career under their real name". Should I go ahead with the Character page cleanup, though?
Would have to agree, starring on a competition show does not mean signing away all rights to privacy.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Quite unique question.
Since they are actors and participate in a show, they also allowed themselves to be turned into public figures. That means that most of their private life is shown on camera.
What about removing their real-life names, but giving some links here and there, so any fan of the show can dig up more info?
Forget that part. I didnt realised that could be worse.
Edit cuz grammar.
Edited by Braylovsky Yo soy el futuro, luwawanu mu sadila kisalasala kio.
These shows don't have people showing their private life on camera. They are in essence playing a character, and showing the cameras a selective portion of their lives to create a narrative. The idea that they agreed to be stalked and harassed in exchange for five minutes of fame is ludicrous.
Sounds like doxxing with extra steps.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Yeah, I feel like including links on Character pages to where their real names were found is almost worse, since in some cases we'd be sending people directly to private social media pages, Venmo accounts, etc, and besides being invasive that has nothing to do with the characters we should be troping them as. I could maybe endorse that sort of thing on Creator/ pages because the queens who have Creator/ pages often have genuine credits in other media by their real names, which could be linked to in a non-invasive way, but I feel like it makes more sense to just redact real names entirely on Character pages and leave them as-is on Creator/ pages unless the queen in question doesn't actually have those other-media credits.
This reminds me of the Overly Sarcastic Productions debate where the actors requested we not list their real names and we ultimately complied.
I agree with Synch that generally we should be troping their drag personas anyway and not them as people, especially if they don't reveal their personal identity when marketing the show.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I overall agree, but do have one question: Are they credited by their personal names in the show? OP only said the wiki decided to remove their personal names and that the show proper almost never uses their personal names. After all, Robin Williams is never referred to by that name in Aladdin because he's only shown in the persona of the Genie.
... that said, I really see no point in not removing the personal names of anyone who doesn't want to share it. Nothing is gained by listing it and it only causes potential harm.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
They aren't, no. I actually just went and watched a few episodes' end credits to confirm; current contestants aren't listed in the credits at all, and when past contestants make guest appearances, they're listed under their drag names.
This thread seems to be dying down, and it seems like the popular opinion here is "there's no reason to list real names if the show doesn't", so unless anyone has any last-minute objections, I'm gonna start cleaning up and cite this thread.
Pretty sure we had consensus on a parallel issue, that VTubers' real names should not be included unless publicly revealed.
Edited by Albert3105
Seems fine to me - I'm really active on the Drag Race pages, and on the show, they list two key stats under the contestants' names when they appear in confessionals (piece-to-camera chats) - their Location (hometown, current city) and then their age. Happy of course to add in "Age: 23", with an 'all hometowns/ages given are correct at the time of filming' subhead. This then aligns us with what the show presents?
Edited by lexii
lexii, I was considering replacing names with ages, actually, I just forgot to bring it up in this thread. You can go on ahead and do that if you like.
Revisiting this, as real names have now been deleted from all Drag Race pages and a comment explaining the rule has been added.
However, as the original post suggested, we also have Creator pages for some of the more prominent drag queens. Series.Ru Pauls Drag Race has a folder for "Drag Race alumni with their own pages on this wiki", linking to them.
Most of these Creator pages (I haven't checked all of them) still include the drag queens' legal/birth names. Following on from some of the comments above, do we err on the side of caution and delete those names unless we have evidence that they're using them professionally elsewhere - e.g. for acting or music credits?
Edited by Mrph1
Do what you want.
^^ Sounds like a safe route to me. Always good to exercise caution.
Vehicle Based Characterization | Grief Induced Split | Locker Mail
^^^ Agreed as well.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup Of Complaining | Troper Wall
^^^Orror, if you're not going to contribute anything to the actual query, please don't respond to it.
I don't have any particular horse in this race, and it looks like things have been decided, but for what it may be worth I'm in favor of removing the real names if they aren't already public, whether via the show or by whatever other career a given drag queen went on to have. Less due to any wiki rules, though obviously that's worth considering here, but also for sake of the individuals' safety. I'm just misanthropic to think someone would take info like that and use it to nefarious ends. So anything we can do to make that harder is a Good Thing, in my mind.
Agreed on all counts with the added caveat that thanks to recent reactionary legislation in certain US states listing their personal information could put them in danger of criminal charges and jail time (and possibly even forced conversion therapy depending on their orientation and gender identity) if they live in or potentially even visit those areas, which is obviously not something we want to potentially be responsible for.
Edited by Dirtyblue929
I think that settles it.
I'll edit out and add a version of the explanatory comment we're using elsewhere.
Where real names are in use professionally (e.g. Mo Heart is credited for acting in AJ and the Queen) I'll add the same note but append the reasoning for keeping it, so that tropers know it's been reviewed.
Edited by Mrph1
This hasn't gotten any responses since I posted it on a discussion page a few days ago, so I'm bringing it here to get more eyes on it.
Anyway, the RuPaul's Drag Race wiki recently announced
that they plan to remove all contestants' real names from the wiki, with the exception of a select few who have some name recognition out of drag. For context, contestants on Drag Race are almost exclusively referred to by their drag names on the show, and most queens do not actively publicize their real names. However, a few of them have non-drag media careers outside the show where they go by their real names, and, more to the point, Drag Race fans are very nosy and very good at sleuthing, so nearly all the queens' real names are plastered all over the internet. This includes Drag Race's many character pages on this very wiki as well as some Creator/ pages for queens who have notable post-show careers.
Between Drag Race's notoriously toxic fandom, which has a serious harassment problem that can genuinely endanger the queens at times, and the recent rise in queerphobic and anti-drag sentiment, safety concerns have been raised about having personal information about the queens readily accessible, which I assume is why the Drag Race Wiki is doing this. I'm not really sure how to address this, nor do I feel comfortable doing a cleanup like this unilaterally, so I bring the question to you: should we delete all out-of-drag names on Drag Race's character pages, keep those that might be considered notable, or simply leave the "real name" listings as-is? And should whatever policy we choose also extend to the Creator/ pages of former Drag Race contestants?
(edited to make formatting more consistent)
Edited by osgwic