Pokémon anime

I'm pretty sure there was at least 1-2 eps where TR beat Ash in battle before, or at least badly damaged Pikachu. I can't remember off the top of my head, one ep where Arbok poisoned Pikachu I think?

I mean there are some random eps where TR were oddly written more competent than usual and stood a chance against Ash in older seasons. I don't know why people act like that SM ep was the first time it happened.

Remember the one with the Moltres flame where they tried to kill Ash?

I think it's counted more as a full defeat because they beat Ash's full team at that point (even if it was only two Pokemon). TR have fainted the twerps' Pokemon before (eg. Likitung sweeping three of them in its debut) but there's usually at least one leftover to take victory away from them.

Ironically in spite of that, SM might be their worst run, since they never remotely neared that same competence level again, usually getting thrashed by the Non-Action Guy Pokemon of the group without even laying a hit on them. They also got a Z Ring and then almost never used it. Mimikyu was their one consistent trump card and most of the time it didn't even obey them.

Hell the league almost felt like it was establishing that the likes of Mallow and Lillie weren't remotely powerhouses because they could trounce Team Rocket without even trying, the latter are just THAT bad.

Edited by Psi001 on Sep 17th 2019 at 1:16:50 PM

I think the problem is a lot of news gets spread around that's misinformed by people who haven't watched the anime in years. When Misty/Brock cameos happened a lot of random news sites and social media sites had headlines like, "Misty and Brock finally make their return to the anime after a decade" obviously wrongly implying they were making a permanent return. Of course they only stayed for 2 more eps and left again. But I guess the Japanese poster putting Misty/Brock with the SM cast didn't help.

I want to say that supposedly Misty WASNT a jerk to Ash in the Japanese version over his loss, she tried to be nice and sympathetic at least at first.

http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparisons/kanto/ep080.html

Huh. Didn't know that. Guess she softened up quite a bit.

Good for her. Though I guess now I'm remembering that Satoshi can be quite a brat at times. This was one of them.

I dont want to completely whitewash and deny all critism of the characters, but dont take the 4kids dub as the gospel. Sure its nice and fun and nostalgic plus much much much better than other 4Kids anime dubs but it still is a 4kids dub.

There seems to be hit and miss whether the 4Kids dub made Misty nastier or nicer, like they downplay her egotistical moments but make her criticisms toward Ash more naked insults.

Interesting that one was downplayed in the original, Ash was full on curt in the Japanese version while in the dub he just told Misty to stuff the insults for once, though yeah, still doesn't excuse that a lot of crap was going against Ash in that league that was ignored.

It's curious seeing how different Ash was in the early Japanese edit. I tend to link bratty Ash with the English version and the nicer Ash with the Japanese one since that's when I switched dubs.

Edited by Psi001 on Sep 17th 2019 at 2:01:58 PM

I like the Electric Tale of Pikachu's take on the Indigo League more.

Here's the thing; it wasn't just CNN that said that misconception. Why do you think many fans believed that if Ash wins the League, the show is over? Nobody who worked on the show said that if Ash wins a League, he'll be a Pokémon Master. There's a reason why I decided to write down this entry on God Never Said That:

• In an interview in 2008, Masmitsu Hidaka stated that when Ash Ketchum becomes a Pokémon Master, the show will end. Many fans took that to mean that Ash will never win a Pokémon League because if he wins, he would be a Pokémon Master. Never mind the fact that the goal of Pokémon Master is deliberately vague, with Ash himself saying that winning a League is just a small step to that goal and that being a Pokémon Master is greater than simply being the world's strongest Pokémon Trainer. This misconception has become so notorious that Sun & Moon director Takayasu Yahan had to address the issue by saying that a Pokémon Master is not just winning the League and that learning is more important over winning or losing.

Prior to Ash winning the Alola League, the skeptics and naysayers always insisted that "League Victory = End of the Show" which is why Ash would never win one. I've seen this argument countless times, even back during the height of the Kalos League. And it was always the same Hidaka interview, even though he never said anything about the Pokémon League. And now we have rampant fan speculations about Ash leaving the anime because he won a League. And why would they believe one tournament victory would mean Ash retires... unless they equated Champion to Pokémon Master. This isn't just merely a Cowboy Be Bop At His Computer scenario, though I will say that the CNN example alone would count as such.

@ACW, in regards to your question

1) Jessie tried to be a Pokémon Nurse, but ended up enrolling into a school meant for only Chansey. She flunked out, obviously, despite being good at human nursing. But she ended up befriending a Chansey, giving half of penchant to her. That Chansey evolved into Blissey, and she saw Jessie as a friend first, criminal later. Thus, Blissey gave nearly all of the food in the Pokémon Center to Team Rocket, which would jeopardize her career as a Nurse. So to prevent Jessie's friend from being fired, Team Rocket framed themselves as the guilty party who forced Blissey to give food to them.

More info can be found here

2) Takeshi Shudō continued writing as head writer up until the middle of the Johto. I believe he was tired of Executive Meddling he had to endure from the higher executives, with either Spell of the Unown or Pokémon 4Ever being the final straw. After he left, the series was left with no head writer for quite a long time. If I recall correctly, Advanced Generation didn't have a head writer until we reach the Battle Frontier arc where Atsuhiro Tomioka became the new head writer. This was also when Pokémon really started becoming a Shōnen tournament-esque show (and not surprising considering that Tomioka would eventually write for Dragon Ball Super).

3) A Pokémon Master is a vague goal that is less of a goal and more of a drive. Theoretically, it just means being the very best at everything regarding Pokémon like no one ever was. But as long as there are new challenges and new opponents, no one can truly be a Pokémon Master. It's just something to motive Ash to continue his journey and improving himself. It's like trying to be the world's greatest Basketball player or the best skydiver. Yeah, there are people in real life who are the best of the best, but they don't stop the moment they are officially on the top of their game. No, they always seek new challenges that no one ever thought or dare to do. It's a typical Shōnen protagonist.

Which is why Ash is often compared to Son Goku, a protagonist who wants to become the strongest fighter and he's always longing for a stronger opponent to fight.

Edited by Shadao on Sep 17th 2019 at 6:44:13 AM

In hindsight SM has broke a lot of trends in the anime that previously wouldn't be thought of. Nearly every series dabbles in this here and there, but usually only one or two cases significant (BW was the nearest to the big formula breaker beforehand). To quote off a different forum, the league alone has all these landmarks:

• First games-based league that Ash has won.
• First league where a companion took part (all five Alola companions for that matter).
• First league already where a companion reached higher than Ash did in a previous league (Kiawe).
• First league where an antagonist battle occurred (Guzma, also technically Team Rocket).
• First league where a main character has came in with a mythical or higher tier Pokemon (two in fact, Meltan and Shaymin, three if you count Gladion with Silvally).
• First league where a character has used a wild Pokemon (Shaymin).
• First league all of Ash's rivals originated from the games.
• First league that is THE first league of the region.

Edited by Psi001 on Sep 17th 2019 at 3:05:37 PM

x2

If being a Pokemon Master is an actual thing I would think that you don't have to be the best at everything since otherwise there couldn't be multiples. Would be interesting if after winning a League Ash's goal changed to something else rather than battling to continue advancing towards his goal, though that'll never happen.

Edited by Chariot on Sep 17th 2019 at 10:09:21 AM

Ash has technically made two landmarks as a trainer this series, winning a league and officially helming a mythical Pokemon. That's amusingly more progress than he's made in two series beforehand really.

I'm almost willing to call performing a successful Jane Goodall with some Passimian a good sign of a Pokemon Master as well.

Edited by Psi001 on Sep 17th 2019 at 3:12:29 PM

Wasn't that the most recent banned episode?

Yeah, it seems the dub has gone back to its old antics. We've even had some ridiculous edits like the shurikens being turned into pink spheres with suction cups in the ninja trial episode (wasn't the whole point of that gag how dangerous they were anyway?).

Edited by Psi001 on Sep 17th 2019 at 3:42:22 PM

A better sign than any dumb trophy I'd say.

And I'd still say that if said trophy was earned in 8 rounds against trainers that earned 8 badges. Especially if he was a quarterback in that game.

'This episode was skipped in the dub due to a scene in which Ash wears dark face paint resembling blackface during the second half of the episode, in order to imitate the appearance of a Passimian. This follows the banning of Holiday Hi-Jynx, Stage Fight!, The Mandarin Island Miss Match, and EP 250, which were banned due to a similar controversy involving Jynx.

This also makes it the first main series episode that aired in Japan to not be dubbed since DP 120, 417 episodes earlier, as well as the first banned episode of the Sun & Moon series. It is also the first episode to be banned outside of Asia since EP 250, 753 episodes earlier; and the first non-clip show episode to be skipped by The Pokémon Company International.'

EDIT: oh hey! Ash's Alola League victory first aired just under a week shy of the twentieth anniversary of Ash's Orange League victory.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Sep 17th 2019 at 9:44:53 AM

I got to say that censorship looks more like looking for problems where there aren't any. But that's just me.

Edited by VengefulBale on Sep 17th 2019 at 12:39:19 PM

Hm... How has the series been faring on Disney XD? If we're getting good episodes butchered or banned again, then, if the new series is a Reboot or follows M20, TPCi may deprioritize or even skip the English dub in favor of less stringent dubs.

The English Dub is so far behind. based on airdates we haven't even gotten to the league. If there was a weekday Marathon on Disney XD I'd happily watch it

But as I'm from the UK I have CITV.

Shadao: Yeah, that's the EP I meant. I forgot the snow one.

People still care about the dub in the year 2019? I largely dropped the dub after the DP series ended. That was 10 years ago.

Sometimes people just like watching shows be spoken in their native language. Not sure why that's such a surprising idea.

I was actually asking about ratings, i.e. how many people watch it now in Disney XD.

Anyway, remember the "Ash can't catch Dunsparce" gag from Decolara and Kalos?

Well, while Shuckle is the favorite for being Farfetch'd's Shield counterpart, Dunsparce has become a bit of a Dark Horse Candidate.

If this series continues the main anime timeline, and if Dunsparce is Farfetch'd's Shield counterpart, to the point of getting a cross-gen evolution, then I could see the writers revisiting and resolving that gag.

Do you want to imagine a sturdier Shuckle? It might be better if Dunsparce got an evolution, then.