During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
FYI, for internal links, you can just do Web Video / Title (without the spaces).
Edited by ACW on Oct 8th 2020 at 2:17:01 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Okay, so...sent my laptop in for some repairs. May be absent a little bit, heads up
Goku Black
Good luck dude.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Good luck, Lighty.
"No running in the halls!"
Good luck dude (my laptop is busted, I’m typing this on my phone)
Goku Black
Mine only got fixed a few weeks ago. Seems to be go ing around.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
My laptop's having problems too. I should probably get it looked at.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
This site can be a PAIN on the phone.
So are Dimentio and Frieza consensus cuts?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Try typing an ep with it. You have to keep checking that the grammar and spelling is coherent.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lizzid people!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
True. Though worst is doing an entry. The brackets...
@ACW You forgot to put fanfic!Bill Cipher on pending
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Rose
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I didn’t see it on the thread.
Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 8th 2020 at 1:01:02 AM
Goku Black
Isnt ghost already written up.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes Ghost is.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Rose
I've been typing EPs and write-ups with nothing but mobile for the 4+ years I been on this site and I can concur it can be a pain ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
I used to make so many typos (hello "shits down Iron Man's armor"), luckily am a bit better about it thanks to years' experience lol
- The Bank by Bentlry Little: Mr. Worthington and Julius Pickering are a pair of greedy, controlling bankers who betrayed their partner Theo for total control over the "First People's Bank" all for themselves. Trapping the magical Theo in a room and feeding off his powers for decades, Worthington and Pickering turned the originally good First People's Bank into a corrupt, twisted organization designed around ruining and destroying lives for its owner's purposes. Recruiting and assisting serial killers in their endeavors, turning innocents into mindless slaves, and forcing those indebted to the Bank to butcher each other when they can't meet the Bank's demands, Worthington and Pickering use their strategies to take over entire towns and cities, with each and every citizen being ruined, enslaved, or killed, all while the bank owner duo go so far as to sexually extort and exploit their clients for fun. Even willing to financially endorse militia groups to terrorize minorities, Worthington and Pickering's most vile act comes when they supply the means, funds and weapons to a pair of school shooters, happy to let them loose and watch the ensuing massacre of students just for the funds and word of mouth it brings them.
- The Raid: Tama Riyadi is a Jakartan crime boss known and feared for his cruelty and lack of any emotion except cold glee at his crimes. Introduced executing four hostages with a gun, Tama opts to beat a fifth hostage to death with a hammer just because he can. When a squad of special tactics police officers plan to infiltrate Tama's base of operations, a massive apartment complex, and arrest the criminal, Tama allows the strike to happen just so he can lead the dozens of officers into a trap and slaughter them all. Cutting off their escape routes and ability to call for backup or help, Tama smugly challenges the thugs and crooks in the building to help kill the police in exchange for monetary rewards, only to then betray his allies and have his loyal goons kill any tenants wounded during the firefights with the cops so Tama can loot their bodies and apartments for money. When one of Tama's Co-Dragons, Andi, spares a cop's life because they are brothers, Tama responds by viciously torturing Andi and planning to kill him in front of his brother, and as Tama is captured by the officers, he cheerfully brags about the fact that his trap killed at least 18 cops in a single day.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And yet apparently there's a new author, "Bentlry" Little
RIP Toriyama
Legitimately leaving the typo as it is on this page because my dumbass be making comedy you can't find anywhere else
That'll work great!
Edited by Ravok on Oct 8th 2020 at 1:58:35 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Raid, I'm gonna do this:
Faux Affably Evil for Tama's name? CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The wifi here sucks
Hey so I'm popping out of my temporary hiatus to reserve the recently announced Resident Evil movie. Has anyone reserved it yet?
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
I don't think so.
@Lightysnake: Noted. Good luck to that.
RIP Toriyama
EDIT: Oh, and also gonna reserve the movie Fatman that was just announced. Don't care at all that it probably won't have any candidates, this is my kind of film and I want to handle discussion
Btw, seeing as this got lost in the shuffle months ago and very few people actually chimed in? I want to again bring up one of my G.I. Joe candidates for re-evaluation:
- Sgt. Savage and his Screaming Eagles'': Lieutenant Garrison "General Blitz" Krieger, aka Dr. Garret Stromm, quickly establishes himself as one of the most evil characters in the franchise. A member of the IRON (International Robotic Operations Network) Army in World War II, Krieger infiltrated the U.S. Army and served in Sgt. Savage's unit, all of whom he led into a trap, with only Savage surviving the ensuing slaughter. Krieger then subjects Savage to horrific experiments in his attempts to create a super-soldier to help The IRON Army win the war. Having Savage cryogenically frozen after The IRON Army's defeat, Krieger turns himself into a cyborg and spends the next 50 years re-establishing The IRON Army in secret, helping to create the terrorist group Cobra in the process. When Savage's frozen body is located by the G.I. Joes, Krieger dispatches an executioner robot to kill Savage and any Joes that get in its way. Krieger then initiates his master plan: Using a satellite weapon to take control of Earth's computer systems, then leading The IRON Army in the conquest of the world. Savage, though brutally beaten and taunted by Krieger, manages to stop his plan, but not before Krieger makes his escape. A vicious would-be dictator, Krieger was willing to betray, torture, and murder anyone who got in his way to ensure The IRON Army's domination of the world.
So, Krieger is from a one-shot pilot episode that never took off into a full-on series. As such, his crimes are limited to a single 20+ minute episode, however he doesn't have to compete with anyone in heinousness since this is a somewhat standalone series.
The thing that sparks this request for rediscussion is simply if Krieger is bad enough. He's pretty generic in several aspects...his plan to Take Over the World has Putting on the Reich written all over it as he's a stand-in for the Nazi party, but there's no actual stake put into lives being lost, just "he'll take over the world and become a dictator!"
His co-founding of Cobra is kinda unique, but it's a literal one-off line that isn't given much weight. He also tries to kill several of his enemies with a robot.
The thing that makes me hesitant to outright cut Krieger—and indeed that made me propose him in the first place—is the...shockingly brutal scene of him leading a group of about 10 American soldiers—who he has ingratiated himself into and who believe he is their partner and friend—into a trap where his machines slaughter them, while Krieger personally tortures a screaming Sgt. Savage into submission with electricity and then performs a bevy of experiments on the man to turn him into a supersoldier.
It's a particularly dark segment and it's the impetus to Sgt. Savage's hatred for Krieger and PTSD-nightmares, so it's absolutely a horrific crime, it's solely the question of it's quite enough.
It overall leaves Krieger with:
- Trying to kill Savage and other Joes with a robot
- Planning to take over the world and institute his dictatorial regime by taking control of all technology on the planet
- Mentioning that he co-founded Cobra, one of the world's most dangerous terrorist organizations
- Betraying and slaughtering a group of soldiers before torturing and experimenting on Savage
If this were an action movie, it'd be pretty simple to just say 'Cut'....but because this is a cartoon pilot episode, having such a dark sequence of violence and torture is notable, it's just if it's enough for Krieger to be Complete Monster level.
I'd appreciate if folks would give their opinions on this, I've tried to discuss it before and it was for the most part ignored except by a couple of people, so let's try to get some actual thoughts and discussion on this one as we can.
Edited by Ravok on Oct 8th 2020 at 4:16:41 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
I'll say cut Krieger; I don't think his one standout crime is enough to push him over the edge.
Edited by falcontalons on Oct 8th 2020 at 3:23:12 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, I'll still say keep him. Barely. That one crime seems like Charles Rane killing the guy, or Sean Miller being an Ungrateful Bastard.
Edited by ACW on Oct 8th 2020 at 6:40:30 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
To clear up any confusion with my recent EP, I’ve previously created a page for the author’s entire works which class them as “web video”. Link here. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebVideo/BatmanmarchDoctorWhoActionFigureAdventures
Felix Alexander Ellis