During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
It's more I'm just tired of hearing of Griffin. It's a shitty, terrible film nobody cares about or even remembers.
The Draftsman of Doom
I'd offer to watch it, but I don't want to Ignore this lame attempt at humour.
Does anybody know with which service (if any) I can stream the 1996 movie Hollow Point? PM me.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Gotcha.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 29th 2020 at 1:10:33 PM
Feels good, don't it?
It's not funny, clever or cute. I wish memory of it would just fade and die out. I don't care if anyone watches the movie to double check him or not, I'm happy to treat that YMMV page like a "do not enter" zone, forget about it and stop having the damn "Lol he supposed to be good guy but bad writing do the thing! Hurhurhur!" that keeps coming back.
Woagh
Oh.
Sorry. I didn't know that was a sore subject for you guys.
Also, PM means "Private Message", right?
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Mortimer and Carl
Goku Black
I finished the new dresden files novel Battle Ground. PM if you want to dicuss. Discussion is going to be fun.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Correct, "PM" does mean "private messaging."
Goku Black
Anymore votes on Baskerville
Forgot if I voted, but to Baskerville
Larxene, Carl, and Mortimer
Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 29th 2020 at 12:06:06 PM
Today I decided to check back into this thread because I realized I forgot to write up a villain I proposed a while back. And as it just so happens, I did so right when someone asking an innocent question gets dogpiled. And now I remember exactly why I decided to distance myself from this thread: people getting unreasonably angry over the smallest things. ACW's comment about Griffin was such a small, easy to look over thing that doesn't even derail the thread to talk about the shoddy quality of the film he's in, but we've got at least two people worked up into a frothing, seething rage over it.
I've seen this happen time and time again with people, usually the same individuals, getting angry because someone might have messed up and proposed a villain previously downvoted without knowing it, or in this case simply bought someone up one time too many for a few people's sensibilities. At this point, I think I really am done with this thread for good because people take it way too seriously, which was a problem I myself had before stepping back.
Nobody snapped at anyone. We're just tired of hearing about one film.
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 29th 2020 at 11:53:57 AM
Woagh
So I think I've found a promising candidate.
It's a series of Slender Man fanfics called Blood And Venom ( I Recommend them, they're pretty good), which basically adapts Slender, but expands every character (Including Slender himself) adds the blogs from the mythos (Most prominently Tribe Twelve) and even slaps The Foundation in there for good measure.
Obviously, i'm talking about The Slender Man, who here is much more open about taking joy in his victims suffering. The fics also go into more detail about how much He's ruining the lives of his victims (Such as Kate, who he never stops stalking after that fateful night, and is reduced to a paranoid shut-in).
Unfortunately, the series is not quite finished yet (The second and forth stories went on hiatus, and the third one is being somewhat reworked to be less Expositiony), but I'll still keep my eye on it.
also the story's like really good so I'll probably read them anyways.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Sep 29th 2020 at 11:56:31 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
I think we have a Slender Man who already keeps, so it's not without precedent. When it's done, feel free to EP him/it.
Woagh
Oh don't worry, im already aware that there are several of those.
Excellent. Whenever you're ready, drop a proposal!
RIP Toriyama
An easy 'Yes' to Baskerville and Carl
Aight, so, seeing as I and others am quite sick and tired of this being brought up, I went ahead and forced myself through the boring torment that is Red Zone Cuba.
The film's CM entry, for those curious:
- Griffin is an escaped convict who only shows himself to be a sociopathic Jerkass and hypocrite throughout the movie. A greedy Fat Bastard whose only stated desire is to become rich, he casually abuses everyone around him, never passing up an opportunity to do bad. He claims that he wants to go legit, then five seconds later he whips his friend with a belt and steals said friend's most valued possession. He regularly beats up (and occasionally strangles) his friends, murders strangers, and rapes a blind woman after throwing her father down a well.
I'm fully advocating to 'Cut' Griffin, posthaste.
So, the film is a slogfest, with a barebones "plot", but I suppose it's enough to warrant having a CM.
Griffin does have several scenes that could slightly be seen as Pet the Dog moments. He gets notably pissed when a buddy unintentionally reminds Griffin of his life before prison and how his wife became a prostitute, even strangling the man (not to death) when he basically calls her a slut. He also, for no reason at all except visible concern, tries to warm up one of his partners who is cold. This is not done for pragmatism or to keep them on his side, he has zero problem smacking them around otherwise, and the partner doesn't even mention he's cold. Griffin takes the time to notice, and then takes the time to truly attempt to warm the guy up even though it causes him trouble. But, I suppose if you want to reach, you can say these are too ambiguous.
What isn't ambiguous, up for debate, or justifiable? Griffin ain't heinous enough.
His crimes? Amount to abusing his two partners now and then (but never enough that they actually stop being friends with him, and they're both massive assholes themselves to such an extent that one will laugh while the other is being abused by Griffin), killing a few Cuban soldiers who would have killed him first if given the chance, throwing an old man down a well and raping his blind daughter, and nonfatally shooting an innocent woman.
This is barely scratching the surface of baseline, and on top of that? His partners are fully complicit in the old man's murder, and a sizable chunk of the film is spent showing Griffin and his partners in a Cuban prison where the guards regularly abuse the prisoners and then line them up outside to be shot dead.
What does leave Griffin? One count of cold-blooded murder (which his partners assist in), attempted murder of a bystander, treating his asshole partners like shit, and raping a blind woman.
Griffin isn't the only villain in this film, and his only claim to fame to making him "unique" is raping a blind girl, which, while bad, if you take into consideration that his partners are murderers and the Cuban prison guards abuse and kill prisoners of war, which we see done nearly half a dozen times onscreen? Griffin doesn't stand out for the setting enough.
I'm motioning for a cut. A pretty easy one, tbh.
Edited by Ravok on Sep 29th 2020 at 12:03:42 PM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Yeah I was questioning that one, you're a champ for motioning that Ravok. Get rid of him!
Warthog, Lighty and I just said we were sick of it... don't twist that into "seething rage", lay off.
Lizzid people!
Sure I can live without Griffin.
Goku Black
Oh God cut Griffin and then Let Us Never Speak of This Again.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Griffin [1]
◊
Gentle Laborer
Mortimer and Carl. Incidentally, I began reading the novel a few months ago and had no idea that a live-adaptation adaptation was being produced.
Griffin... He ran all the way to hell, with a penny and a broken cigarette.
You should’ve just PM’d someone about Designated Heroes, we’ve talked about it so many damn times it’s practically common knowledge that we do have some
Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 29th 2020 at 8:38:04 AM