During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Showtime!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I agree. The quality is undeniable, but I don't think there's enough there
EDIT: tbh I've always felt kind of weird abt music candidates that aren't from concept albums/ rock operas
Edited by Libraryseraph on May 31st 2020 at 5:12:14 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Happy and cheerfully willing to strike down any half-effort stories that snuck past. No to Nyarly and cut the bear.
I was under the impression that we were also pruning problematic song candidates?
and even if, prose is a different form of media than music.
Lizzid people!
Pretty sure that with song candidates we're doing the same thing? Music and stories are different mediums for one; but if a song doesn't have a plot i.e. is too vague, then that is where it is problematic.
Edited by AustinDR on May 31st 2020 at 2:12:57 AM
Honestly, I mean music candidates in general. Music videos are one thing, but candidates from just lyrics strike me as no different than the stated problems with very short horror stories.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Prose is a different form of media than music, I stress again. Why is it a double standard when it's two different things?
Lizzid people!
Well, there are narratives to the song often; if it's nothing more than just a series of words put to rhythm, then that is where it is reject-worthy. But ultimately, music and literature are two different genres. Don't see a double standard either.
Edited by AustinDR on May 31st 2020 at 2:15:53 AM
Goku Black
Sounds like an apple's and oranges comparison
Honestly, I'm gonna go against the grain and vote keep to Teddy. While the story's short, it's not mindless low-effort schlock, and I'd say it has enough of a plot.
Also this is really embarrassing, since I was the one who brought her up, but we should cut the Creepypasta version of Bloody Mary while we're at it. Her story is 599 words. I just checked.
Edited by Beast on Oct 4th 2020 at 8:25:49 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I mean there is a difference between a song and a form of prose. I don't see a double standard.
Edit: Cut Bloody Mary.
Edited by Bullman on May 31st 2020 at 4:20:55 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Lizzid people!
Alright; cut her too as well.
Cut Bloody Mary.
Goku Black
Huh you aren't kidding. Like most of our eps are longer then This
Yeaaaah... unless it's mind blowingly well detailed, somehow establishes the protagonist side of the work and gives them a fighting chance against Mary in 600 words chop chop.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Like, I can see where the concern lies with music, but it's much harder to do a multi-thousand word song than a multi-thousand word story (and I'll be damned if we're removing my music candidates ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
).
The Draftsman of Doom
I'd like to read the Bloody Mary story before I vote either way, though I'll probably vote cut.
Honestly, I'm worried we're overly concerned about the length of a story.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Bloody Mary
It is a very good reason to pause before stamping down a yes. Centipede and A Serbian Film should be enough evidence it's not the only thing we take into account but from an objective standpoint a story has far more difficulty fleshing out its themes and setting the shorter it is and I'd even say under 5k is getting tight. Not a blanket rule but you're starting to scamp on detail the shorter you go.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the Going Postal duo and the Demon, and to cutting Andre, Sinjin, Bear and Bloody Mary. Nyarly.
Cut Mary.
Is there any other internet/creepypasta character that's going to be cut?
—signature not found—
Well teddy knife-hands has been brought up.
I don't mean to beat a dead horse since I've asked this before, but what's the difference between short horror stories like that and any music candidates we've put up? There's usually even fewer words and less plot in song lyrics.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.