During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The wifi here sucks
@ falcontalons I'm pretty sure that it is the same Negaduck. There were two versions of him in the show, one that was the literal dark side of Darkwing, and the main version who was from an alternate universe. Going by the post by Footsteps, he's saying that the comic version is the alternate universe one and not the dark side one, he also said that the comics are a sequel to the show so it is the same character.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Riaz and Attila the Hun.
Alright so aside from a few people abstaining due to concerns of his appearance (I think that he has enough personality and appears just enough to be considered) It seems that the majority has voted for Kim Jong Un so here's his write-up
- Homefront: Kim Jong Un takes over North Korea his father's death where he unites the country with South Korea to form the Greater Korean Republic and rules over its people with an iron fist. He would also forcibly annex numerous countries throughout Asia before setting his sights on the United States of America, launching an invasion to take over the country. Under his rule, he brainwashes his subjects into worshiping him; those who refuse to submit are sent to re-educations camps where they are systematically killed with mass graves containing thousands of corpses.
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 5th 2020 at 11:32:34 PM
The wifi here sucks
I'll read through the comic tomorrow and have someone who's more familiar with the show (maybe SumDumNerd) help me to make sure if he really drops his redeeming qualities.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Okay, there's a Creepypasta example I'd like to contest: The Alice Killer. Here is their entry:
- The Alice Killer was a Serial Killer who viewed death as being greater than life. He would abduct his victims, often when they were alone, and he would then murder them. dismember the bodies beyond recognition, and he would leave a playing card behind. He was also shown on a security camera with a moving garbage bag in his hands. In one of his murders, he sewed a crown on one of his victim's heads most likely when they were still alive, and he also broke in through a window to murder two of his victims while they were still sleeping. The Alice Killer also ultimately caused one of the victims' mothers to commit suicide out of grief, and he also caused her husband to endure several therapy sessions.
The story has enough of a plot to take it out of pointless schlock, but I don't think the killer has enough personality. The only real glimpses of personality we get out of them are their calling cards; some have vague nihilistic messages such as "Death is a distorted dream." and "Ha! Ha! Those which die are the lucky ones.", but overall the killer is portrayed as a very enigmatic figure. The story also never definitively states who the killer is; at one point, there is a man who is heavily implied to be the killer, but it's never outright confirmed.
Lizzid people!
This was one I did a long time back; he's a nihilistic serial killer who found joy in death. Those calling cards were indications of it. Not a pronounced personality, but it is there.
But otherwise not really bothered if the killer stays or goes. Meh, guess I'll say cut now that I'm rereading the story.
Edited by AustinDR on Apr 6th 2020 at 5:21:12 AM
Current mood: sick of your shit
Riaz and Atilla, keep the Alice Killer.
to keeping the Alice killer
Goku Black
Is their a link available so I can read it ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Here's a link to a reading.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I provided a link in my cut proposal. Here is the story.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
We do have Mentor Heuh, but she is at least The Voice.
Edited by falcontalons on Apr 6th 2020 at 4:53:08 AM
Late yep to the Doom trio.
Not sure on Alice Killer. If the killer's identity is vague and they don't appear on screen than I don't see Calling Card being enough.
Have their been any keepers that don't appear on-screen?
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
We have the Stalker from Pen Pal
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Actually, we do see the stalker after he's dead.
Goku Black
Meh . Might as well toss this dude out.
Whats the work
The big book of Jack the ripper is an anthology book which collects various Jack the ripper stories. Both nonfiction essays as well as many fiction stories. Included in this collection are the famous Yours Truly Jack the ripper. Now alot of stories don't have an example but I found one.
From the short story "A matter of Blood" by Jeffery Deaver which was made for this collection.
Who is Jacques La Fleur?
Jacques is a lowlife frenchman who believes himself to be destined for true greatness. Thing is Jaccques is a total prick and begins to steal out of a Mix of fun and profit. Hes eventually arrested whereupon he's visited by two members in charge of protecting the royal family Adams and Goldbrick with a proposition of sorts. Princess Victoria is dying due to her haempophilia and in order to save her who they genuinely love, they plan to drain the blood of someone in order to transfuse and save her life. They pay him to murder...mary anne nichols whose blood type matches hers.
Unfortunately a problem emerges. Jacques sees the infamy his murder generates, the attention and goes off script becoming a Serial Killer in general. Butchering 3 other innocent women who had nothing to do with that . With him making each murder more gory, and vicious in order to captlise.
Adams and Goldbrick change tactics and make their way into the ripper investigation, in order to stop the spread of information and find Jaccques and stop the killings. The expertly pull the wool over the eyes of the inspector Wentworth (I may give them Magnificent Bastard eps) and divert his attention as they look for Jaccques. Anyway Jacques murders Mary kelly and goes to Wentworth's house, intending to kill him or his wife or servant girl for his big splash. Thankfully Adams and Goldbrick capture Jacques and take him away from Wentworth before he can kill and bribe him with a large amount of Money into never comming back to London again. Jacques greedy as he is. Accepts and leaves making him a total Karma Houdini.
Mitigating factors ?
No. He was hired to kill one person that's all. His entire rampage is him going way offscript from what they wanted because hes a fame hungry asshole. He only leaves because they paid him to.
Mary Ann Nichols.
Gladbrook reminded him of this and added, “But suddenly you vanish, and we open the broadsheets and learn that you decided otherwise, despite having taken our guineas. You went on to slaughter four more women.”
“No, no, no. Three only. Miss Stride I was interrupted during. Only had time to slice her. Still piqued by that, I must say.”
“Are you mocking us?” Gladbrook raged.
“No, sir.” Jacques fell silent.
“One killing and the incident would have been noted in the public eye for a day or two and then drifted into obscurity. But four others? What would have been a minor crime has gone on to become the talk of the world!”
Adams asked bluntly, “Answer us! Why did you keep killing?”
“Just what you said, governor,” Jacques said, eyeing Gladbrook. “The talk of the world.”
Heinous standard ?
Okay Adams and Gladbrook ordering the first hit was bad but they only did that because they care about Victoria. Jacques though is far worse having murdered four other women and planning a sixth all for infamy. Gruesome over the top murders involving sheer mutilation and cannibalism. None of which they ordered or told him to do.
Conclusion?
Sure why not
Edited by miraculous on Apr 6th 2020 at 4:58:23 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Jacques
to Jacques.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
Edited by falcontalons on Apr 6th 2020 at 5:09:00 AM
Goku Black
So what's the difference between Angel killer and say the zodiac from Zodiac.
Both of them are never given an answer to who the hell they are, they never speak nor is it ever indicated they show up onscreen in person. If were going to reject the later why should we keep the former.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
The issue with the Zodiac killer from what I recall is ambiguity, whereas with the Alice killer the proposed issue is a lack of personality.
Keep alice killer, as those notes seem to give enough of a personality.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Goku Black
Does he not show up though in person in the work ?
Because in not sure keeping someone on a few notes they made is cool counting as an official appearance.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
No, Mir brings up a good point...the Zodiac Killer had the taunting notes as well. We scrapped him because we never got a solid hint on his identity even toward the end of the film.
The post questioning the Alice Killer also brings up a question of ambiguous identity, on top of never appearing on-page and having a limited character. I'm actually seeing very little frank difference between this case and the Zodiac's; I say cut.
Re-readig the story, it seems more like a summery of events rather than a proper narrative. I'm leaning to cut myself.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Okay, with Beasts point in mind I'm leaning cut as well.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
to Jacques LaFleur.
Got to admit that's an interesting take.
Edit: I'll say cut on the Alice Killer as well.
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 6th 2020 at 5:18:55 AM
EDIT: Wasn't ready to post this yet.
Edited by falcontalons on Apr 6th 2020 at 2:29:12 AM