During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
The Draftsman of Doom
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Vell and Fatman.
The wifi here sucks
I understand what you're Delphine, but I'm more curious about low resource characters since I feel like Fatman may count since he does a decent bit with far lower resources than people than Volgin and Ghostface.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
I thought sharks were my friends.
Oh, sorry. I thought you were asking about the general standard from your initial post.
RIP KissAnime.
to Fatman
Yes to Vell and Fatman. Anyone else have opinions on the Bastion and Darkseid quotes I brought up earlier? Apparently the Apocalypse quote is already on the main page.
Lizzid people!
A link to them?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Since the canon Black Cat now has 5 and 0![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
, do we make a write-up for him or wait for 43110 to finish reading the prequel?
Lizzid people!
I'll give a "yes" for Black Cat.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Sure to the Black Cat if I didn't vote on it already.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The MILF Virus
Veil, Fatman, and fine Black Cat.
So about the idea of comparing heinousness with non-canonical stories... I mean I think it should just be treated like it's own entity... because it is it's own entity. It's not set in the same universe, it doesn't have the same history, it's like it's own world so that's my opinion. It's like how setting can play a major role if a character counts or not that even if they are in the same universe, being in completely different settings with little connection should give each setting it's own heinousness standard.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Yeah, continuity should never be an excuse as to why someone doesn't count, unless there's Negative Continuity
Vell and Fatman
Don't wait on me, I have no idea when I'll get to reading it.
Vell and Fatman
@ AustinDR, sorry, I was out watching Terminator Dark Fate, I will just report the quotes:
Bastion: The irony is exquisite, isn't it? Your mutant gifts will be used to bring your kind to its knees. This is your true destiny: the harbinger of mutant extinction.
Bastion: Try to relax mutant, as I peel and strip your mind like an onion. Very soon I will have everything I need to rid the world of your kind... Excellent, the extinction of Homosapien Superior, mutants, begins now.
Superman: Get off my planet... monster!
Darkseid: Normally a threat from you is worth considering, but with both the Mother Box and Sensory Matrix Field Generator at my command, I'd rather think you should get off my planet. I will transform this world into a new Apokolips. Not Hell on Earth, something far, far worse.
Edited by Overlord on Nov 2nd 2019 at 9:57:17 AM
Lizzid people!
The second Bastion quote is pretty good. Darkseid's quote is fine, but not really feeling that one.
The wifi here sucks
I agree with Austin
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
You know, I'm going to do the writeup of The Black Cat soon enough along with Ehit from Arifureta. Sorry for the delay. Been busy as usual
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Fair enough.
The second Bastion quote is kinda a combination of quotes, there is a fight between an X-Men and Brotherhood member and some Patrick Stewart narration while Bastion is scanning and torturing Forge, but I think it works, the first part is him preparing to torture Forge, the second part is the aftermath of that torture and the results it yielded.
Edited by Overlord on Nov 2nd 2019 at 10:56:20 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I'm Back!
Finally!!
Ugh the last few days have been immensly stressful.
Anyway, late to Song!Chara
And....Frankly I dislike calling that situation Adaptational Villainy, same reason that Works portraying Chara sympathetically aren't cases of Adaptational Heroism. That would imply that Chara had a Persoanlty in the game that was changed. But in the game proper the idea that Chara is just a power hungry Sadist is just as likely as the idea that they're some sort of Tragic Villain. Unlike say, Madame Macabre!Monika where Monika had clear Sympathetic qualities that were stripped away.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lizzid people!
Late yes for the Fatman.
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Song!Chara and Fatman.
I will be coming with my write-ups very soon, but there is something I wanted to bring up...specifically, Durge from the Star Wars universe.
Though he's completely sadistic and cruel in the present, Durge is given a backstory that I don't believe has been brought through here... as detailed in the Visionaries short story Prototypes? Durge's hatred of Mandalorians is shown to stem from his master Jaing being mortally wounded by them in a fight, something that obviously horrifies Durge, and he then only goes after the Mandalorians to prevent them from hunting down Jaing and finishing the job.
As detailed in a guidebook, Durge was eventually captured by the Mandalorians and subjected to brutal tortures that he survived due to his immortality, which "pushed him to the brink of his sanity" and solidified his hate for Mandalorians.
Durge is an absolute beast in the present, never actually mentions Jaing in any capacity, and another guidebook paints Durge in a completely negative light and makes the claim that he's been a sadistic monster for life, but seeing as Prototypes is an actual comic and not just a guidebook, and shows that Durge was once far less....ah, batshit insane? I figured it was worth mentioning.
I by no means want Durge cut, as the dude is depraved as all hell, but such a backstory might throw some cogs into his qualifications for some people.
Edited by Ravok on Nov 3rd 2019 at 1:10:09 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Also, I just beaten Luigi’s Mansion 3, it was amazing. PM if you want to know who counts, or still counts in this case.