During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
It should depend the game too, of course. As noted, a lot of Final Fantasy games aren't tied to each other. They don't share the same universe, so shouldn't be compared with each other. They do have crossovers, of course, but that's also its own thing unrelated to the regular series' continuity. It's like Hyrule Warriors, a separate continuity in its own right.
The Lord Of Walruses
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Pennywise, baby killer guy, Niklon, radiguet, 40 k guy, velvet, and Nobuhiko.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
To spider girl.
If the script is only a treatment, I say to ET guy.
On another note, should the writeup for the Space Amoeba from Space Amoeba be moved to the Godzilla folder? I know it isn’t canon with the rest of the Showa series, but the monsters in this movie have reappeared in other Godzilla media, so the movie is defiantly related to the series.
I have no idea what I am doing
Refresh my memory: was the DEVILMAN crybaby version of Ryo Asuka thoroughly discussed or effort posted? Honestly, even his one redeeming quality (his alleged love for Akira) really wrings hallow compared the the atrocities he committed, especially when you compare them to the circumstances of his manga counterpart.
In no way, shape or form is Ryo Asuka in the same universe in this trope. His final scene in the anime is realizing he loves Akira and sobbing brokenly over everything he's done.
Regarding Space Amoeba...keep em separate I say.
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 22nd 2019 at 6:16:01 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, people thinking characters like Ryo Asuka fit the trope are WHY this cleanup thread was even created in the first place, and why the main CM pages were locked.
Now, LAN Asuka, from Devilman Lady, on the other hand... is basically Ryo without the sympathetic qualities. But then again, Miss Lan is already on here, so not much point in bringing that one up, I guess.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
A redeeming quality Dosent ring hollow unless it's subverted, no matter how Heinous they are.
Guys like Bondrewd would be bad enough to count in Beserk But it Dosent matter because of his redeeming qualities.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Niklon, Radiguet, Herman and Velvet
Spider Girl and Korel
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Dino Velvet.
Herman von Strab—surprisingly mundane (for the lack of a better word) which just makes him stand even more, he's a opportunist human, not a apocalypse harbringer.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
@Chase
Attempted Actions count as much as Sucessful ones.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
The TNO mod for hearts of iron iv is coming out on May 1st 2020
Hopefully I can discuss this on May 15th next year!
Edited by xie323 on Sep 22nd 2019 at 8:34:42 AM
I thought sharks were my friends.
Ooh! That actually reminds me, The Forgotten City, a mod for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, is going to have a standalone remake supposedly in late 2019. Since nobody's claimed it yet, I'll get this one!
RIP KissAnime.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@xie323 @Delphine Good luck for both of you!
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
I thought sharks were my friends.
Okay, one that's incredibly rude.
Two, we're not allowed to give blanket votes anymore. You have to be specific.
Edited by DelphineTheDelphox on Sep 22nd 2019 at 8:59:58 AM
RIP KissAnime.
Ok then at least consider my to Radiguet. Anyways apologies for my rant but some stuff that he’s said rubbed me the wrong way and he was really really mad about this issue.
Edited by xie323 on Sep 22nd 2019 at 9:03:42 AM
This is not a thread, not even a forum, for ranting about other tropers.
Ok apologies
Herman too
Edited by xie323 on Sep 22nd 2019 at 9:13:50 AM
Okay, time for my next Secret Histories candidate, a real doozy of a bad guy... Crow Lee, from Live and Let Drood and Casino Infernale.
Who is Unholy Crow Lee? What has he done?
The Most Evil Man in the World. Number one in the Bastard Business. Crow Lee is a walking, talking, entirely human monster with a legend of atrocity behind him. He's done it all; mass murder, torture, sacrifice, human trafficking, misery on small scales and wide scales alike. Crow Lee is an unashamed Card-Carrying Villain who wants to take over the world, and to do that, he's intending to destroy the entire Drood family, leading a vicious attack on their House (with the help of the traitorous Adrian Drood) that leaves countless Droods dead and the rest spirited off to some unreachable pocket dimension—"somewhere appalling," Crow Lee hopes—for eternity.
Crow Lee merrily oversees countless amounts of murder and manipulation, using Mind Rape to convince a woman he "loves" her and setting her upon the Droods before she kills herself in his name; summons hundreds of restless souls to attack the heroes, anguishing in Crow Lee's thrall; resurrects Jack the Ripper himself, a fiendish killer with countless bodies named "Mr. Stab" to work for him; tortures and banishes two of the Metcalf sisters to the same pocket dimension; and captures Eddie and Molly, forcing Eddie to watch as Molly is tortured and intending to have "fun" with them until they wear out. Eddie and Molly are taken for a grand tour of his house, too, where we see just some of Crow Lee's decorations:
- A room filled with countless mirrors, trapped within each of them a gallery of silently screaming faces trapped in eternal agony
- Floors decorated with rugs made from pelts exclusively cut from endangered animals—some still with the heads attached, suffering in eternal agony
- A long row of spikes lined with the heads of people, young and old and everything in between, still aware and in eternal agony as Crow Lee eventually cut out their vocal cords so as to prevent them from even screaming
- A library with books bound in the skin of flayed people, and furniture decorated with trophies from his slain enemies
- A crucifix on a wall, nailed upon is a fetus that Crow Lee ripped out of its mothers' womb and pinned it there alive and breathing
After that macabre display, Crow Lee attempts to force Eddie into a Sadistic Choice as part of his final plan; he'll give back all the members of the Droods, in exchange for being granted total immunity to his crimes. After the tables are turned, Eddie responds to Crow Lee's offer by punching his head off, ending the Most Evil Man in the World for good.
...well, not quite, because in Casino Infernale, Crow Lee's posthumous gambit is still ruining lives. We learned that Crow Lee was serial killing his own children, leaving only one alive—his bastard son Parris—and that he's also set up a mysterious power called the Crow Lee inheritance, with a recording of his will gleefully imploring everyone to tear apart civilization itself and spill a wave of bloody slaughter over the world in an attempt to get it. And as it turns out, the Inheritance is just Crow Lee's last trick; a portable black hole that, when released, will destroy utterly everything, solely so Crow Lee can drag every living soul to the grave with him in spite that he didn't get to rule the world. The Inheritance is stopped and all is well.
Any mitigating factors?
There's absolutely nothing to talk about this. Crow Lee revels in how much of a purely evil bastard he is, and even considering the monstrous standard of the Simon R. Green universe, Crow Lee is a running pole jump over it. He's not only one of the worst in either Nightside or Secret Histories, he's one of the most wicked assholes I've ever seen out of an urban fantasy.
Conclusion?
Reasonably, what else can you call The Most Evil Man in the World?
Thoughts?
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Unholy Crow Lee
And a yes to Crow Lee
Gentle Laborer
to Evil itself, goddamn... Now I'm kinda uncomfortable with my name ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Sep 22nd 2019 at 1:43:27 PM
Darkwing Goose
Crow Lee
Ultimate Moral Compass
I really can’t give anything else but a to Misyer Crow Lee.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Sep 22nd 2019 at 9:45:35 AM
"No running in the halls!"
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
the difference is each Game is its own Work that happens to share a franchise, Whereas each episode of a TV Series is part of the same work.
Things are really about to get Fun around here