During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Just tally the votes tomorrow.
Then we'll see whose in the lead
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Edited by FriedWarthog on Sep 22nd 2019 at 4:06:12 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Fine with me.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yep, all yours, Fried.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I vote Option 2.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Edited by FriedWarthog on Sep 22nd 2019 at 4:06:00 AM
Before we even knew it existed?
Cross-wired freak
I think I remember it being reserved based on like a tentative creator comment and someone went "if this exists, i reserve it"
Listen to my podcast
Fried, please stop erasing your posts when people have already responded to them. It's a pain and a hassle for the thread and it's not good practice to delete your own posts at all.
Here's my question, and this is something I kind of overlooked... the question of the script being authentic totally aside, do we really have enough to really enough to justify listing Korel?
Like, I understand we've had qualifiers from unreleased scripts before. I was the first person to ever list a candidate like that. The main difference is that it's not a full screenplay. It's a nine page script treatment—the proposal you write before the actual screenplay.
It... kind of feels like listing a villain from a Wikipedia summary in this case. I think we're pushing our rules a bit to include Korel because the treatment is an incomplete piece of media. It's an overview of an unproduced work, not a truly legitimate piece of media in its own right, and this whole "dubiously even real" and the fact we have to vote on where to put him given there's not even a clear answer to that?
I think we need to take a few steps back, guys. I kind of just voted off the summary, but I think we're getting ahead ourselves with this one.
Edited by Scraggle on Sep 22nd 2019 at 6:14:13 AM
Gentle Laborer
- Kamen Rider Decade: All Riders vs. Dai-Shocker: Nobuhiko Tsukikage is a slimy member of Dai-Shocker who, through treachery and manipulation, became their new Great Leader. Acting as the seemingly loyal butler of the Kadoya family, Tsukikage's real identity is that of Shadow Moon from another reality where he lacks all of his original counterpart's sympathetic qualities. Keeping a close eye on Sayo Kadoya for possessing the source of Dai-Shocker's power, the Stone of the Earth, Tsukikage manipulates Tsukasa with the belief that he could stop the destruction of worlds by defeating the previous Riders, helping him in setting up the battle royal tournament, which doubles as a ritual to raise the Dai-Shocker Castle. After Tsukasa briefly resumes his role as the Great Leader of Dai-Shocker, Tsukikage takes advantage of Sayo's hatred towards her brother to organize a coup, swiftly overthrowing him to assume the throne for himself. Under his leadership, Dai-Shocker launches an ultimatum on the multiverse, ordering thousands of their own soldiers to perform kamikaze attacks and then releasing a legion of monsters to slaughter those who survived as part of their quest to assimilate all worlds into an interdimensional dictatorship.
Oooo....kay...I hadn't voted off Korel one or the other and hadn't kept up as that slipped me by....but of that's the case..then we definitely have an issue with this entry...
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 22nd 2019 at 4:30:51 AM
@ACW Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Darkseid pic got approved
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, so I won't submit Korel; I'll tweak that Kamen entry and add it to the batch tomorrow.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ultimate Moral Compass
In that case, hard ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Korel. Treatments don’t cut it.
Sorry, I thought I messed up by drawing attention to someone reserving a game just from a tentative comment, assumed it would cause the thread to erupt into another pages long disagreement, and tried to defuse it through the worst way possible.
No, you did nothing wrong. I was just confused and it got clarified.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Voting to cut the ET script.
RIP KissAnime.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
@Fried
You beat yourself up to Much, From what I've seen the only real Controversies happen as a Result of others reacting to your posts rather then anything wrong with the post itself.
The fact some big controversy arose where "People should stop being so irked over candidates getting Cut" over a small comment you made isn't your fault at all.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Hey guys, has the Kingpin from the video game, Spider Man VS the Kingpin been discussed before, because I remember watching the game’s cutscenes when I was younger and I think I remember him being pretty vile. Could be worth a shot.
I'm watching an LP of Dark Romance's rendition of Phantom of the Opera. I have to ask, there are no indications that any of these games take place in the same universe, so would the actions of certain villains from individual games in the series effect the heinous standard when compared to the villains of the other games? How does it work with an anthology series?
jjj
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think works in an anthology have a shared heinous standard, so the villains from one game in the Dark Romance series would have to compete with villains from the other Dark Romance games.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Oh, okay then; I kind of thought we do compare the Final Fantasy villains. I know we don't compare the Choose Your Own Adventure villains.
Edited by falcontalons on Sep 22nd 2019 at 5:33:39 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I think that Applies to TV shows but not games.
We don't compare the Final Fantasy guys.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I considered doing that version of the Kingpin once. He does try to nuke New York and his personal crime of attempting to burn Mary-Jane alive. But I don't know, his worst crimes happen only during the game over screens, and he only attempts to do so should the player beat the game successfully. While they're brutal game overs for an E-rated superhero game, I'm not sure we can consider them canon.
But hey, if you're interested in doing an EP, go right ahead.
I don't see why we would treat video game anthologies differently from TV anthologies. The heinous standard is pretty loose for them but I'm pretty sure we still compare different entries to each other to an extent. It's just not as strict.
5-5.
Edited by ACW on Sep 22nd 2019 at 6:48:28 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts