During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yea for Stuart and Palpatine.
Also...
What is the work?
Legend of Lemnear is a manga based on an OVA Lighty and Scraggle covered a while back on CM. In this expanded and very altered version, the plot concerns the title character as the subject of a legend in which she is to defeat the evil Lord Varohl as his army try to kidnap her for his mysterious purposes. Now, in this version neither Varohl and Vuan count, however, I've deemed one of Varohl's generals at least worth discussion.
Who is Camus? What has he done?
First seen with fellow general Raga where they try to draw out Lemnear's power, uncaring that it is destructively uncontrollable and are near a populated town. Lazily failing to intervene, Camus looks on as Raga kills Vuan as the latter tries to protect his daughter and Lemnear's companion, Lian and is then killed by Lemnear himself, Camus is punished for his failure to take in Lemnear and begs for a second chance.
Next seen in a large city, Camus has a water monster under his control attack Lemnear and her companion Lian as they enter the city and later lets it loose in the city itself. Revealed to be the head of the operation which forced Vuan into slave trade, Camus has countless people kidnapped and turned into monstrosities, having the family of one young girl killed when they tried to stop him from taking their other daughter. Employing a group of thugs he has imbued with the ability to transform into monsters, Camus has Lemnear captured and brought to his castle. Surrounded by a harem of less-than-lucid-seeming women, Camus goes to the dungeon upon hearing of Lemnear's capture and causes her immense pain with his magic powers, before being engaged by her and her adoptive brother, Meshu, overpowered and seemingly killed for good.
Brought back to life near the end of the manga to help guard Varohl's fortress, Camus and Varohl's other resurrected generals engage in a fight with Lian and Varohl's brother, killed for real in the battle.
Heinousness?
Of Varohl's generals, easily the nasties: running the kidnapping outfit and responsible for untold people being turned into monsters, nearly destroying a massive city with one of his beasts and happily letting his superhuman thugs torment whoever they want.
Mitigating factors?
Only real question has to do with his nature: we don't know what Varohl's generals are beyond he can remake them anytime they are destroyed. On the flip side, while all four of them are assholes, Camus is easily the worst, displays a full personality and for all we know could have just been a human who joined up with Varohl for the promise of power. Agency isn't indicated either way.
Conclusion
As long as you're comfortable with the "remade from clay" thing, I think he keeps.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Abstaining on Camus until further input.
RIP KissAnime.
Abstain on Albert Camus pending further discussion.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Palpatine and Camus.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Yes to Camus.
to Camus
The Lord Of Walruses
to Palpatine and Alik. Abstain on Camus.
Yes there, but let's check....what was Newton's quote?
I bounced this with 43. I say yes. There's nothing explicit invalidating his agency and that falls under our "assume agency unless proven otherwise " rule of thumb. I don't see how this is much different than, say, Zanza.
Cross-wired freak
to Camus. Any more input on my steerpike quote
Agency can be a bitch, especially since "Assume yes if it looks 50/50" isn't really an intuitive rule unless you've been on the thread for a while but yeah, after Scraggle's input that's basically what I landed on. Thanks again mate!
I thought sharks were my friends.
I guess I'll give Camus a then
The MILF Virus
Camus
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure to Renaud Camus.
Lizzid people!
Palpatine and Camus.
By the way, which Complete Monster has ever traumatized you? Akio Ohtori from Revolutionary Girl Utena didn't drop an atomic bomb on my soul; he himself was the atomic bomb.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
The monster who left an impact on my soul is certainly Charlotte's father... Guys like him exists in real life. That, in itself, makes him even more frightening than any other CM I've effortposted. Even when compared to Kenta Ayatsuri or the Warlord.
Camus.
As for a CM that traumatized me, I can't say one off the top of my head. Sure I was weened off of Disney, and both The Hunchback Of Notre Dame and The Lion King were certianly amongst childhood movies, you'd think Scar and Frollo would be on that list, but they didn't scare me even back then.
But when I look back to my younger years...Orlok definitely left an impression. When I was a little kid, I saw but a few clips of the good Count and they legit made me paranoid that one night I might wake up an see him standing in my doorway or walking up my stairs. Keep in mind this was when I was first getting into horror, I was about nine years old, and characters like Freddy and Michael barley fazed me. Orlok was the one I was scared of running into in the middle of the night.
Edited by Beast on Aug 18th 2019 at 8:19:11 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Palpatine
Also, eventually would you guys be open on reopening the discussion on DOR-15?
Lizzid people!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Palpatine. If I made a joke about his name, I'd be in violation of ROCEJ.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.