During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Conquering with a big dragon wouldn't be sunshine and rainbow. Aegon burned thousands of people, and he had more morality and restraint than Hugh
Besides, soldiers continiued commiting atrocities after Fall of Tumbleton and this solely blamed on their lords arguing who should take Ormund's place.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lighty, thoughts on Maegor's rewrite? The addition of cutting of the guy's limbs is Hegel's. I cut that bit about him being "the third King of the Seven Kingdoms"; I also cut the last sentence.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes, but Hugh's tinpot dictatorship issues and his vicious attack and rulership with Ulf still stand. I mean, it sounds like a bit changed from Fire and Blood compared to Princess and the Queen, so I think we're ok
What rulership? They can't command Peake's or Roxton's men.
The fact that he had a big dragon and went around declaring himself king before agonizingly murdering the guy who disagreed. Regardless of what official authority he had, Hugh was going for authority based on might makes right.
It's why they took them out in secret.
Edited by Lightysnake on Apr 10th 2019 at 12:18:50 PM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
For a very minor guy, who is basically a random thug that got a dragon, he's bad enough for me.
Watch me destroying my country
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Um, guys? Maegor rewrite okay?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yet crimes at Tumbleton can't be only blamed on them.
It's fine by me. I get that, but Hugh and Ulf unleashing fiery death on the city is the progenitor of issues at Tumbletown.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Cool.
As for those other two, I voted yes originally, and I've not been convinced to change my mind.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
But isn't main. Main is dead of Ormund.
Goku Black
What?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I...don't know what that means, Hegel.
Handsome Head of Hyperion
I am not seeing any legitimate issues or arguments being raised against Hugh or Ulf. They seem to be bad enough given their resources, and the arguments to cut them seem like reaching.
Ardyn however sounds like a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Apr 10th 2019 at 12:57:20 PM
I am also officially caught up on Possessed...god, the wait for the next episodes is gonna be tough, but right now, I have a villain I am excite for
Ormund Hightower was commander of Green forces attacking Tumbleton. He died during the battle which alongside lords arguing who should take his place resulted in soldiers going loose in a town.
Crimes commited during lords's arguing are same or even worse than during battle.
Man were killed, women including olds, girls, septas and silent sisters were raped, rich were tortured and babes were impaled on spears.
And Betrayers aren't blamed for them.
Edited by hegelvonaxel on Apr 10th 2019 at 1:02:43 AM
Goku Black
Oh right does anyone count in Batman Damned ? (aka the one with batman's penis)
Edited by miraculous on Apr 10th 2019 at 1:02:21 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
And, again, Hegel...you think that Mr. "Scourge the town with burning fire and completely destroy order" has no responsibility in any of this?
Don't turn this into Single-Issue Wonk, Hegel.
They have. But they aren't main responsible. Peake and Roxton could order their men to stop.
That does not diminish their responsibility, and there is a tiny factor that it is really really hard to regain control of rampaging men. Even Stannis has trouble with that.
Quoth the ASOIAF wiki:
"Buildings throughout Tumbleton burned to ash. Thousands burned to death or drowned trying to cross the Mander.[3] Outside of the walls, Ser Pate of Longleaf was unhorsed and trampled, while Garibald was burned by Tessarion's dragonflame. Ser Roger Corne's men opened Tumbleton's gates to the greens, and Lord Owain Bourney betrayed Ser Merrell the Bold within town's castle. Lord Footly's men yielded, but were beheaded by the greens. Girls as young as eight were raped by the victors"
I'm not going to really entertain the notion that Hugh is just a bystander or innocent in this because Roxton and Hightower men ran rampant as a perfectly predictable consequence of Hugh and Ulf's betrayal.
Gentle Laborer
You are obsessing over ASOIAF again, Hegel.
Is there a reason this needs to be as dragged out as it's getting? From the sounds of it, both keep.
Also Maegor is getting an expansion to his entry now? Why are there so many CMs in this series with massive writeups? Do they somehow all commit every crime under the sun?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, 43, I kept Hegel's addition about the guy's limbs getting cut off, but even with that, my rewrite's STILL 30 words shorter than the original.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Though, I think we can add that thing to Maegor; I'll also cut out some of the natter.
- King Maegor I Targaryen, aka Maegor the Cruel, was the ancestor of both Aerys II and Joffrey. He usurped the throne from his nephew and promptly decapitated the one Archmaester who protested. As king, Maegor turned to brutal tactics to suppress the Faith of the Seven, even riding on his dragon Balerion to burn down a Sept with all worshippers inside, using archers to pick off stragglers. Maegor proceeded to commit massacre after massacre, even passing off the skulls of poor smallfolk in the wrong place at the wrong time as members of the Faith's warriors. Following the capture of Wat the Hewer, a leader of the Poor Fellows, Maegor had his limbs cut off. Worse still was Maegor's attitudes towards family: Maegor killed his own nephew in combat, and then had his second nephew captured and tortured to death. When one of his wives gave birth to a "stillborn monstrosity," Maegor had her, everyone at the birth, and her entire family executed. When his favorite wife, Tyanna of the Tower, revealed she'd poisoned said wife from jealousy, causing the monstrosity, Maegor cut her heart out and gave it to the dogs. Obsessed with having an heir, Maegor forcibly married three women, including his own niece. After having the Red Keep constructed, Maegor also had the builders massacred to keep its secrets to himself.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts