During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
My problem with Surt is in the Ghost Busters cartoon universe, the end of the world happened a lot. I remember Real Ghostbusters better then Extreme Ghostbusters, but in Real Ghostbusters the Horsemen of the Apocalypse were released and almost ended the world, a guy almost destroyed the world because his girl friend dumped him, a door that is not supposed to be opened till doomsday is accidently opened by construction workers and that nearly ends the world, a cult summons Cthulhu to end the world.
Really Grundel and Piper benefit from having far less power then the world ending threats, because they stand out as being more vile then most of the low level spooks the Ghostbusters faced. The low level ghosts tended to pranksters or generic bad guys, with a few sympathetic ones thrown in.
Edited by Overlord on Aug 13th 2018 at 9:37:34 AM
Goku Black
Oh right yeah there was also a demon who tried to steal the shears of fate to control all of humanity and kill anyone who went against him and his army and a fire demon named The Hob who tried to lay waste to the world by freeing the ghosts from the containment unit upon a relook into my memory of the show. High tier villains on that show tend to be really bad.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 13th 2018 at 9:56:37 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
I might ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Surt if he's got a level of sadism that goes unmatched by the other world destroying ghosts.
I'm gonna abstain, but rounding out some bad action films now...
What's the work?
Drop Zone is a 1994 film starring Wesley Snipes and Gary Busey. Busey, btw, is our villain: Ty Moncrief.
Who is Ty Moncrief?
A master thief and terrorist, Ty is a renegade skydiver and former DEA agent who runs afoul of Snipes' character, Pete Nessip, a US Marshal who with his brother Terry is escorting a computer hacker to high security prison. Ty and his men sneak aboard the plane and hijack it, killing multiple passengers. When he escapes, Ty blows up the side of the plane, sucking Terry out to his death, while skydiving out with his team and the hacker...the plane is saved, but over a dozen people are killed as a result. Now, Ty's plan? Hack into the DEA database. He and his en sneak into several facilities, killing all the guards inside, to provide their hacker with access.
Now, Pete locks on to the idea of how they meant to save their hacker, Ned...his concerns arne't taken seriously. It turns out Ty trained with a world class skydiver to perform the crazy jump he did and when Pete follows up, it's revealed Ty murdered the man to cover hos tracks.
Now, Ty's plan turns out to be to sneak into the DEA office on independence day when security is lax, having Leedy hack in to the databse...and download all the names of the DEA's undercover agents. Whereupon he's going to sell them all to the gangs, cartels and criminal organizations for top dollar, exposing thousands of agents to death and torture to make a buck and disappear. Pete and his team, however, track them down and eliminate Ty's men one by one, ending in a fight between Pete and Ty. Both Ty and Pete fall off the skyscraper they're on and Pete manages to open an emergency parachute, leaving Ty to plummet to his death, one of his surviving henchmen driving a car that happens to smash right into him as he's falling. Exit Ty.
Mitigating qualities?
Zero by way of redeeming features. He has no reaction to his men dying, no morals and Gary Busey plays him as a completely over the top, greedy psychopath. Heinousness, he's the only main villain and while he's pretty generic at first, he has a sizable body count, almost downs a commercial airliner with hundreds on board (he didn't care if it landed safely or not, that's for sure) and his ultimate plan? Is honestly pretty unique as far as action films go. He wants to get all the undercover DEA agents' identities and auction them off, exposing tons of innocent law enforcement officials to death and torture. I'd say he hits things here.
Conclusion?
And a yes for Ty
Goku Black
Moncrief
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ty. Busey's first CM?
I don't know if I'd call DEA agents "innocent", but I won't let my political beliefs influence my vote.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
V
Moncrief and I'm gonna keep my for Surt as he seems to be more sadistic than the others.
Yes to Moncrief.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Gary Busey. Was planning on checking this movie out someday.
Yes there.
To Moncrief
Would this do for a quote for Pieter Vorstedt?
- —"I'm the guy that changed the course of your life, man. 4 years ago, Riggs, when you were a narc down in Long Beach, you were getting too close to us so we put a contract out on you. I handled it myself; drove your car right off the fucking road, remember? Now, of course, you weren't driving. You can't imagine the surprise. I pulled back this matted mop of blood-soaked hair to see this woman's face... your wife, right? She didn't die straightaway... took a bit of time."
Ty and Surt
Yes to Moncrief... saying weak no to Surt. The sadism compliments his apocalyptic goal but I don't know if it truly sets him apart as "worst of the worst" when there's apparently a lot of other attempted world-destroyers there.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I kinda disagree with Scraggle. If there are many world destroyers, but one has a sadistic side, that can push that one into counting (IMHO anyway).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
Ty.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
De-potholed Blofeld
- Ernst Stavro Blofeld, head of Special Executive for Counter-intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion (SPECTRE) , is an icy sociopath interested only in what profits him. Running SPECTRE with an iron fist, Blofeld facilitates terrorism around the world, and any underling who fails dies a painful, ignominious end. When he and Bond finally come face to face, Blofeld is attempting to start a nuclear war to have the Soviets and the Americans wipe one another out, allowing SPECTRE to blackmail the newest superpowers. When this fails, Blofeld undergoes plastic surgery and attempts to swindle his way into a pardon and a noble title, with brainwashed women spreading a bacteria to annihilate the world's agricultural supply. When this fails, Blofeld takes revenge by murdering Bond's new wife on their wedding day. Later having plastic surgery again, Blofeld has multiple diamonds stolen to power a satellite with an orbital laser. Blofeld calls an auction between the Soviets, Chinese and Americans: The winner will possess nuclear supremacy in the world. The losers will be wiped out by the satellite..
Edited by ACW on Aug 13th 2018 at 6:49:58 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Alright, one more for today....a bit of an unusual example as to whom it's from...
What's the work?
The President is Missing is a novel by James Patterson and his co-author...Bill Clinton. The novel? President John Lincoln Duncan goes missing on the eve of a massive cyber attack. And the villain? One Suliman Cindoruk.
Who is Suliman?
Suliman is a cyber-terrorist from Turkey who operates without ideology, despite his group being known as the Sons of Jihad. Now, Suliman is a mercenary in practice, assisting in a series of harsh terrorist attacks around the world, while deciding to aim at the US. The President sends a team to deal with hot targets in Algeria, only for Suliman to anticipate it and with help of moles, to fake a recording that sounds like a conversation between him and President Duncan to ruin Duncan's reputation, with an American soldier killed in the attack.
Suliman is revealed to be in contact with Duncan's chief of staff, paying him for access as he puts his plots in motion. Contracting an assassin to eliminate any of his loose ends, Suliman designed a virus called the Suliman.exe that targets certain devices and branches off, utterly destroying and shutting everything down upon repair and used proxies to get it into the US. When his assassin tries to assassinate his targets, it turns out Duncan is meeting with one under cover. The President is injured and spirited away by the Secret Service. Taking advantage of this, Duncan stays missing to better fight back, letting America believe he's vanished as they route the virus and track Suliman down.
Turns out, as a test run, Suliman first plans to attack water treatment, shutting them down and poisoning entire water supplies. One person even likens it to Flint Michigan times a hundred, before Suliman intends on his virus plunging the US and then the rest of the West into the dark ages. Hospitals will shut down with life supports, possibly airplanes...the death toll will be catastrophic.
However, the good guys manage to decipher the virus and handle it. Duncan is able to have Suliman's location traced and sends a special forces team. In the ensuing fighting, Suliman is gunned down and the Sons of Jihad stopped as Duncan resumes his Presidency.
Mitigating Qualities?
The only other villains are the chief of staff, who's not bad enough, his goons and his assassin (who has multiple redeeming qualities)...Suliman is seen multiple times and while hardly a deep character, he has enough. Terrorist attacks, yes, but trying to send the US to the dark ages with a full death toll made clear? I'd say we got enough.
Conclusion?
I'd say yes, and who else can say they have a villain from a book written by an ex-President?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Suliman. What exactly IS his motivation? Greed, or just merely Terrorists Without a Cause?
10th at least for Patterson (4 each from Alex Cross & Daniel X, plus The One).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ty and Sulliman.
Edited by Beast on Aug 13th 2018 at 7:57:08 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Beast: That's fascinating. I knew about the Emperor, but not about the other 2.
I like the Vect quote. This one too: