During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I am the King!
@DR Psyche: Alright, btw I was checking here in a bit cuz I'm not really sure if Ryoma Sengoku and Lock Dealer Sid are also CMs considering of the crimes they commit. But I'm sure Redyue was one of the CMs. What do you think?
edited 8th Sep '16 6:30:21 AM by n3xus
This is all Zi-O's fault!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The Kamen Rider page is filled with entries I think were only lightly discussed at best, particularly considering most of them devote an unnecessary section as to how each villain gets theirs. I'd love to hear some more input on the series.
@DDD: Which Seagal movie? I might be able to take a look.
edited 8th Sep '16 7:00:36 AM by Scraggle
Most of the Kamen Rider entries, at least, are solid keepers. I can see Ryoma from Gaim counting as well.
As for Jack Noir...forgive me, Psyche, I plan to read Homestuck soon so I'm remaining out of this until I can weigh in fairly.
I am the King!
I guess I might need some help regarding of summarize Ryoma Sengoku's actions as a CM. Same for Sid and Gaim Gaiden Baron's Alfred cuz I don't really see any Freudian Excuse behind them at all.
edited 8th Sep '16 1:41:56 PM by n3xus
This is all Zi-O's fault!
Firstly...Dagon
- Dagon, leader of the Infershia Pantheon of Hades Gods, is dedicated to the revival of the Dark God N Ma. Adhering to the Dark Precepts, Dagon shows no regret in executing his fellow God Ifrit when Ifrit fails to defeat the Magirangers within a time limit. Dagon soon shows his true colors by cheating, and when the good-hearted Hades God Titan attempts to seal away N Ma within himself, Dagon ambushes and kills him, releasing N Ma to devour Magitopia, earth and even Infershia as well. Betraying and attempting to kill his honorable companion Sphinx, Dagon later rejects her offer to ally with the humans, claiming all he desires is destruction and to see "the ultimate nightmare."
- Devlin Waugh: Bloodsire Aaron Landis, imprisoned in the underwater prison Aquatraz, causes a massacre by turning five hundred prisoner into vampires and slaughtering every other living thing he can get his fangs into at the prison, resulting in the exorcist Devlin Waugh himself being turned into a vampire. Seemingly defeated, Landis returns several years later with an army of aquatic vampires to get his hands on the daywalking vampire Lilith to take her power. Landis butchers every human in his way, causing a widespread massacre of civilians, including children, across the nearby area and when confronting Waugh, Landis opens the throat of a little boy when Waugh takes too much time to surrender to him. After brutally killing several other civilians, Landis prepares to kill Waugh and companions before killing, raping and devouring Lilith in roughly that order, all to create a world where his vampires reign supreme and can feast upon the innocent at will.
- Vassago Cassals, also known as POH (short for Prince of Hell) was the founder of the Laughing Coffin guild in Sword Art Online where he rallied together the worst of those trapped in the game and had them slaughter their fellow players for the joy of seeing East-Asian players kill eachother. Later betraying and abandoning his own Guild to die, POH corrupted several other players and sent them to kill those who had participated in the Laughing Coffin's downfall. Biding his time after being released from the game, POH returned to torment Kirito again, brutally beating him and promising to torture his lover Asuna to death. After being defeated, POH asks for a 'warrior's death,' while planning to use being ejected from the game as a chance to kill the helpless Kirito and Asuna.
- Crocodile Precinct: The unnamed Warden of the second arc in the series is a cruel, sadistic woman who appears oddly youthful. Running her prison with an iron fist, it is soon revealed the reason for her youth is that she drinks the blood of beautiful woman whom she tortures to death. When the heroine, police officer Mika Hino, is captured by her after instigating a riot, the Warden has her men fire into the crowd, not caring if her own guards are killed, and subjects the surviving women to torture by stripping them nude and forcing them to stand in place through the hot sun or freezing rain until they collapse. Mika herself is taken to the Warden's torture chamber and subjected to torture, with the Warden throwing vinegar on her wounds to wake her should she pass out. The Warden then has her attendant try to rape Mika, who gets the better of him and escapes. Her response is to furiously execute the man and promptly demand the Guards recapture Mika. Responsible for turning her prison into a hell on earth, the Warden lived for two things alone: to remain beautiful and young, but primarily to cause pain to others.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lighty, 2 things:
- What work was Dagon from again?
- Which arc is PoH from?
POH is technically there from the start. The Alicization arc is when he makes his full appearance
Dagon's from Magiranger
@Scraggle: Hard to Kill.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Got it. I think I'll put him on the same branch as Quinella then, but before her.
You know, I think we have to cut Zè Pequeno from the film page. I saw the movie and he has one redeeming trait: his friendship with Benè looks genuine. After Benè he's killed Pequeno has a teary Villainous Breakdown and he sounds truly devasted. He even screams about calling an ambulance. No CM would have done this.
Unfortunately, that may be the case
Cut Pequeno.
@DDD: I'll take a look some time this weekend if you're not able to.
Messenger from another dimension.
I am glad we are cutting Pequeno. I always felt he didn't belong.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cut Ze I guess. Too bad; he seems bad.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
Yeah, cut Ze. I usually hate cutting examples, but I'm surprised that point wasn't brought up in the past.
Speaking of which, wasn't Dwarfstar decided to be cut?
edited 8th Sep '16 12:21:05 PM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?
Lost in Space
I know I'm a moderator, and should know this, but do we have a general guideline for how long a webcomic page has to be released before we can propose the removal of a previous CM?
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I don't think so(?)
@DrPsyche: I'm abstaining on Jack, because right now the information to cut him is a bit hazy for me. The only way I could give a firm vote is if I read Homestuck myself, and that's not gonna happen. Though I will say, the fact that he's probably gonna fall in love with another person seems like a valid reason to cut him.
In regards to the whole reserving examples, based on what everyone's said, it's still okay to claim a spot if you want to. Hardly anyone in the forum seems to have an issue with it. However, I do agree with OccasionalExister that we shouldn't really hog as many films or video games or comics, etc., as we can. I know there's thousands of forms of media coming out every month, but that doesn't mean we can't share.
With that being said, if someone does claim a spot you really wanted, then by all means just ask them if you can have it instead. Case in point: Lightysnake wanted to effortpost a villain from Kulipari after I already took the spot. He offered to do it if I didn't feel like it. I said no, and that I'd be able to do it.
End of story.
If you ask someone if you can have their spot and they say no, please do not make a giant fuss over it. At the same time though, if someone asks for a spot, and you already have claimed a few spots, then share. The world will not end if you hand over one or two spots to someone else. Everyone in this forum (for the most part) is in their 20s or older, so this shouldn't be difficult to handle, since we're all adults and we're "mature" for our age. ......For the most part.
Anyways, I do agree that we should have a limit on how many spots each user should take at a time. Right now I'm leaning towards seven, maybe eight. What does everyone else think?
edited 8th Sep '16 11:54:36 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Not to my knowledge.
@Fighteer: I believe the two-week rule still applies.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Ze
Okay, since someone asked me to, here's a draft for Beast The One.
Ultraman Nexus:Beast the One, also called simply The One, is an amoral sociopathic parasite from space. Fleeing from its enemy, Ultraman The Next, it escapes into Earth's oceans and attacks a submarine, killing everyone on board and taking Udo Takafumi as a host. Udo is slowly and painfully eaten alive, physically and mentally, with The One absorbing his memories to pose as Udo. After absorbing enough organic matter to escape, The One murders his way out of prison and flees into the wilderness. When led into a trap by Udo's fiancee Sara, it poses as Udo to try and prey on her feelings before attempting to kill her when the deception falls through. After escaping again, it flees into the sewers, eating and killing every human it comes across, along with some other animals like rats and lizards. This is when we find out what qualifies it—-it talks, it thinks along very human lines, and it deeply enjoys killing people. It does not prey on humans for sustenance. They do nothing to enhance its powers; simpler creatures like lizards, rats and crows do that. It preys upon them for pleasure. At one point, after taking on its true gigantic form, it laughs while destroying the city, gloating and bellowing for the humans to run in terror. What made The One stand out over most of the other kaiju before or since was its utter sadism. It's a Psycho for Hire that deeply enjoyed killing and eating humans, in some ways worse than its creator. It is not a wild animal, or a tragic beast—-just a monster.
If we're imposing how many reservations a user can make at once, I think five sounds like a reasonable number.
I think it goes without saying nobody should be raising a fuss about who gets to propose what. If two or more people want to do something? Resolve it via a civil discussion. I don't really think there's been any instances of people quabbling over reservation dates but, as Tyk said, it's something we know better than to do. The thread's not for bitching or flame wars. I think it's perfectly fine for certain people to reserve the right to talk about certain things they want to talk about (I'm hyped for Doctor Strange for instance) but if we ever devolve to the point where we start to fight over who gets what, that goes against the whole point of this thread. It's something we're above.
edited 8th Sep '16 1:59:03 PM by Scraggle
I was thinking that six or seven entries would be a good maximum number of reservations. Like I said earlier, I freed up a bunch of stuff I reserved for others to pick, I got way too gung ho about it. :I
I think Scraggle has the right idea, five at a time sounds like a good max. And thank you to Fried Warthog for being receptive to letting some entries go, but you don't have to give them all up. You can always take them back just so long as it's in the limit.
Also, I would like to reserve discussion on the Nuka World DLC for Fallout 4. There does seem to actually be some good contenders.
DDD: Please add Mamiya to the Drafts page. Feel free to expand if you want.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts