During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Meridius with that clarified.
Now with my final writeup.
- The Ferret #10 "Chains of Love": The nameless Serial Killer is a mysterious supranormal who uses a biker bar as means to hunt down young women, beats and burns them to death with his power-ignited chains. Already claiming the lives of six women, he tracks down a detective attempting to catch him, attempting to make her his seventh victim.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think to be safe I'll add the Genesis tree to both Marvel and the main comics page...huh, that means Comic!Bison will be on three pages (those two and the Street Fighter page). Are there any others like that?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I believe that's the case. However, I heard there was a tie-in novel (Dawn of the Planet of the Apes: Firestorm) that goes far more in-depth with Koba's backstory, outlining the history of abuse he went through and the loved ones he lost before he went to Gen-Sys labs.
I haven't read it, but it seems like something that should probably be looked at to see if the mitigating factors are too much.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Is the novel canon? If not, then we don’t count it.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Goku Black
....was brought up already when proposed
Should also note that the writer didn't really work directly with the writer of the films Matt Reeves. He basically made ybr story up on his own ideas so its depending the writer at best.
The thing that made me curious if Meridius might count is that he is the one doing the torture and abuse to his own past selves, causing and enforcing the time-loop that gives rise to his own existence while simultaneously seeking to "break free" of it by doubling down on the torture and abuse of his past selves.
The Timey-Wimey Ball nature of the Garden of Time makes it unclear whether Meridius was always a product of this cycle of self-abuse — a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation.
Edited by Arawn999 on Sep 28th 2022 at 11:26:33 AM
Goku Black
Can I ask a favour for people here. I plan to read the entire The Shadowhunter Chronicles and already have a bunch planed from the various trilogy from what I've heard. The thing is it's literally the longest ya series ever at like 20 books. So really would like help.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Dude. He was tortured and abused into a monster and is doing it to himself? This is so insanely "non-keeper". absolute no
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 28th 2022 at 11:37:04 AM
Yeah sounds like a clear cut tragic villain.
Yeah this feels akin to the issues with Dark Danny’s agency being jacked up not changing given he tries to ensure his existence comes about given he… lacks agency when he tries to do so. This guy sounds like a loon, definite no as well.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Lepka, Sluggo, Durand, Kaiser Hades, Unnamed Serial Killer and Majin Daruga.
The wifi here sucks
No to Meridius
I feel like it should be pointed out with Koba that he's not the only ape to have gone through abuse at the hands of humans but he is the only one to go full on evil as a result which more or less disqualifies his tragic backstory, and that's without him attacking other apes as has been pointed out.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
to Meridius, and unless I missed something I don’t believe OP addressed the issues with Narinder either that was brought up by one troper and got Narinder cut only a little after being put on the list.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I chose to kill Narinder at the end of my playthrough, so he seemed like a keeper to me based on what I'd seen of him and looking him up suggested that his post-recruitment moments of remorse were the product of brainwashing the cultists undergo when they're recruited. If that was wrong, it was wrong.
And yeah, Meridius definitely reminds me of Dark Danny. Ah well.
Edited by Arawn999 on Sep 28th 2022 at 12:43:28 PM
Goku Black
How about a new YA ep.
What's the work?
The Blood of Stars is quoting the trope page:
The Blood of Stars is a series of fantasy YA books based on East Asian folklore written by Elizabeth Lim. They received praise for avoiding many tired YA tropes and their fast paced writing. At present the series is a duology consisting of Spin the Dawn and Unravel the Dusk.'em Maia Tamarin dreams of becoming the greatest tailor in the land, but as a girl, the best she can hope for is to marry well. Her fate is forever changed when the Emperor announces a competition for the position of royal tailor. With her father well beyond his prime and her brothers all either killed or crippled when serving in the Emperor's five year war against the insurgent Shansen, she decides to pretend to be her brother and participate.
Maia must compete against twelve other tailors for the position who are willing to lie and cheat using magic to win, but the complications do not end there. The competition's organizer and judge is the Shansen's daughter, who's betrothal to the Emperor is the kingdom's best chance at peacefully ending the war once and for all, but to say she doesn't seem happy with the arrangement is putting it mildly. Maia soon finds that she may wield magic, and the emperor's Enchanter, Edan, soon discovers this as well
Who is Gyiu’rak?
A powerful demon with the ability to take the form of a tiger. Gyiu’rak was summoned by the warlord known as the Shansen who had gone to war with the the Emperor. The shansen was jealous that the Enchanter of the emperor was given the fame of uniting fantasy China (A'landia) into one country once more. He made a deal with the demon Gyiu’rak, who instilled him in a desire for b bloodlust. She would give him an immortal army of soldiers and he in turn when he was emperor would give her a blood sacrfice of the emperor and ten thousand innocents.
The two combined into one being and waged the five years winter war where thousands died in the carnage. Eventually the emperor was killed and his son took over who offered a peace deal in exchange for a marriage with the Shansen's daughter Sarnai. The shansen accepted for now to bide his time.
Anyway issues arise when Sarnai escapes, the Shansen and Gyiu’rak lead an attack on on the city which lead to a full-scale massacre of everyone in it. Civilain and Soldier alike. Gyiu’rak acts as the Shansen's right hand man but secretly knows shell be the leader when they fully conquer it.
The two eventually kill the emperor and take the heroine Maia's brother and father hostage. They torture them till she relents but she frees them and is now with her friends in hot pursuit by them. Anyway to make a long story short, Maia and Sarnai challenge these two to a duel and Maia destroys the amulet they use to keep their connection, burning them to ash.
Heinous standard?'
Let's see here. Thousands dead from helping co-start a war. Planning a blood sacrifice of ten thousand. Destroys an entire city (town?).
She shares a lot with The Shansen but its also her whose leading him into this. The Shansen himself is close btw but has the occasional moment of sympathy in the book that just edges him out.
Mitigating factors?'
Alright. Umh here's one thing I have to bring up. She doesn't have redeeming qualities but we never find out her backstory. Demons in the novel are created three ways.
1) The first demons are the creation of the gods by creating a species that appeared to be a fusion of animal with beast. 2) Enchanters who've given into evil and become monstrous heartless beings.
3) People corrupted by the curse and pact with another demon.
Which is Gyiu’rak is never explained. The first two would he fine for agency but the last isn't. But the thing to note is the work itself never implies anything sympathetic about her. So well it is ambgious. I'm willing to not view this as an issue since the first two seen more likely. And again the work itself never goes into which she is.
Conclusion?
Honestly id say yes.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 28th 2022 at 1:19:06 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lord of Space
What is the Work?
Madame Macabre is a rather famous web creator known, for example, for her webcomic The Seer and her songs. Today we will focus on The Pianist, a song based off the Creepypasta by the same name, which talks about a man who, to win the heart of the woman he loves, tries to learn to play the piano but fails, ending up to strike a deal with a demon to become incredibly good with the piano but also later discovering that his music kills people.Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
The nameless demon is the main antagonist of the song. Now, I have to specify that while the song is inspired to the Creepypasta there are some differences that make it different from the original story. For instance, while in the original story the demon is referred to as either "him" or "it", here it's a girl, but this is a minor thing. What's important is the other changes. For starters, in the original story, it's the protagonist that decides to summon the demon as a last resort. Here, it's the demon who comes to the protagonist without him summoning her. The fact that the protagonist then signs the contract without reading it first and plays his music in a theater that ends up killing everyone, the woman he loves included, and later decides to confront the demon about it remains the same (there is however a small change regarding this last part, since here the demon says "you stupid things never read", implying she already made similar deals with other humans before, while this thing was never implied in the original story). From here on the story is completely different from the original one: while in the original story the protagonist is forever cursed to keep playing his deadly songs, here he willingly chooses to join the demon, and the two together keep making deals with desperate humans, spreading the curse like a disease.Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nope. The Demon, despite being a demon, has no indications of having moral agency issues, and shows to be a more sadistic and direct threat compared to her counterpart of the original story. While she does let the protagonist join her, it's unlikely that she has any care for him since she seemingly sees humans as inferior beings, and likely did so only to have some help with her nefarious plans.Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Counting the song as its own thing since I don't think Madame Macabre's songs are part of a verse or something like that, then yeah. The Demon has at least dozens of people killed through the song of the protagonist and wishes to continue spreading her curse, and while the protagonist himself becomes a villain by willingly joining her, he still has a somewhat tragic backstory since he himself was a victim of the Demon's manipulations and lost his loved one.Final Verdict?
Yes to me.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to both of the above.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
Yes to both.
Best Smile
Killer, Daruga, Gyiu'rak, Demon.
Meridius.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Gyiu'rak and the demon
Gyiu'rak and the Demon.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Gyiu’rak and a nameless demon.
Gyiu & Demon boi
Edited by miraculous on Sep 28th 2022 at 9:25:10 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."