During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Crimson King.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Crimson King.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Happy to the Crimson King
The badass song that inspired him(from what I've heard), to celebrate.(https://youtu.be/ViVbqU3yWgA)
Edited by Snoketrope on Nov 16th 2021 at 10:57:26 AM
The First man
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Schreber and a big one to the Crimson King!
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Goku Black
Hades and the crimson king.
Edit : Schreber
Edited by miraculous on Nov 17th 2021 at 12:52:55 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Jack Reacher: Well, unless it's confirmed it's ending, but there was a book released less than a month ago. Also, two media, as in the books and the film.
Lane stays; the thing with the potato peeler would probably be enough on its own.
Yes to Hades; Schreber; Crimson King (WTF was with that fucking anticlimax though? No, seriously. How does he go from supposed Greater-Scope Villain of the entire King-verse to a fucking old man with weak bombs?).
Edited by ACW on Nov 17th 2021 at 7:04:56 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Ephraim, Hades, Schreber and the Crimson King.
to the Crimson King
Well it’s finally the 17th in my time, which means it’s officially my birthday (turning 25)! As a special gift to myself I’m reserving the Hulu show Hit-Monkey since it also premieres on the same date as my birthday 🥳!
Edited by G-Editor on Nov 17th 2021 at 12:10:57 AM
A very happy to The Crimson King.
Goku Black
Happy birthday G.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Happy Birthday G.
Man, if not for the comics, I'd be tempted to vote no to the Crimson King, since in the novels all he does is throw bombs.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
to the King
Yes to The Crimson King and Schreber
Schreber
Crimson King
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Crimson.
Happy birthday, G.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 17th 2021 at 8:08:14 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
The Crimson King.
Old age beats even the best ones
Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 17th 2021 at 8:53:25 AM
Watch me destroying my country
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to the Crimson King.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Major to the Crimson King
And yeah, Annie’s too much of a basket case to qualify
So I have withdrawn my complaint about Lane (because if the potato peeler thing and the coat hanger thing can literally make my stomach turn then they definitely stand out enough for Lane to count), but I still seriously question if the Hunter is heinous enough.
Yes, the films have a MUCH lower heinous standard than the books (which are at Criminal Minds levels of heinousness), but that sniper dude and Zec both have similar body counts to the Hunter, and the Hunter doesn't seem to be cruel enough to stand out. He's vile, but not extraordinarily sadistic like Lane is.
Also, I apologize for asking again, but do any of the 3/4 quotes I proposed look good enough to count?
I just want to know in advance since FT is 1 CM away from a page, and 100 Year Quest is still running with a potential CM still very much alive (even if he hasn't appeared for a while in the story).
Speaking of, here's some FT villains who I just want to establish will never be CM's:
- Everyone from the Starry Sky/Infinity Clock Arc (aka, the anime arc that the manga confirmed was canon): Everyone is way too sympathetic.
- Future Rogue: Absolutely not. Aside from his last moment in the present being him telling Natsu how to make sure that Present Rogue doesn't become the monster that he is, living in a future ruled by Acnologia (who is definitely a CM) drove him mad.
- Animus from the Dragon Cry movie: While you could argue that he's heinous enough (since even though he didn't initiate the Dragon Cry's destruction of the continent, he had zero issues with letting it happen even after he got control of the weapon), his last moments have him show care to Sonya for the first time in his life (sort of), not to mention he seems genuinely enraged that Dragon Slayer Humans wiped out all Dragonkind (of course, you have to keep in mind that the very reason that said Dragon Slayer killed them was due to them torturing a little girl, so its Moral Myopia, but still).
- Everyone from the Phoenix Priestess Movie: The prince, even though he's a grown-up brat who did plan on burning a woman alive just because she scratched his cheek (though he didn't know she was immortal), he had genuinely no idea that summoning the Phoenix would spell the end of the world. If he were shown killing some people and/or abusing his subjects or not caring that the Phoenix would wipe out all life THEN I would say that those things combined with wanting to burn a woman alive for a petty reason would be enough for him to count, but nope.
- Also, Dyst is just a boring villain who wants immortality, and though he has no redeeming qualities, he's not responsible for the actual awakening of the Phoenix.
- The Phoenix itself doesn't count since it doesn't actually kill anyone (even though it does try wiping out the world), plus we don't get any clue of its agency or thought process.
- Kyouka and Seilah from the Tartaros Arc: Even though Kyouka might be sadistic enough to count and Seilah did try wiping out dozens of people (and also forced Elfman to nearly kill his own sister, which is rather cruel), their love for each other is actually really heartwarming and genuine. Yes, one of the best relationships in the show is a lesbian pair of sadistic demons. Because Fairy Tail.
- Selene: Yes I know her arc isn't over yet, but we've already seen that she loves her now-dead son Kurnugi. First, when Suzaku says that his master killed Kurnugi, Selene goes from curious to PISSED, and says that she'll rip out Suzaku's intestines (you know, for kids). Also, she let herself get caught just to get close enough to Kurnugi's killer to kill him, and says that even though Kurnugi was one of her "bad" sons, she still loved him, and even spares Suzaku since he has Kurnugi's powers and thus has some of his essence.
- From that crossover between Fairy Tail, EDENS ZERO, and Rave Master, the main villain, Genesis, doesn't count since even though he might be heinous enough, it's clearly established that the Dark Origin (or whatever it was called, I forget the exact name) corrupted him over time.
Speaking of EDENS ZERO, it's been 2 weeks since Poseidon Shura died, so I just want to say...WHY DID YOU HAVE TO REDEEM HIM IN THE WORST WAY AT THE LAST MOMENT, MASHIMA?!
Seriously, this dude is a total scumbag and is basically manga-Joffrey for 100% of his appearance, but right before he dies he gets an Alas Poor Villain and breaks down crying as the woman who HE TORTURED TO INSANITY hugs him.
This isn't what Mashima usually does, which only makes it worse.
God that made me so pissed. So no, Shura doesn't count.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Also, from his character page Zeref seems the farthest thing from a CM.
Wait, Mashima redeemed someone from EDENS ZERO? That doesn't seem typical.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Hell yes to Crimson King.
The Dragon
Yes to the Crimson King.
I see.
For the record I am abstaining I don't have any direct issue I just don't really feel like voting on this.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes