During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
La Couple, Midori, Eu and Pusca.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Blue P. Myers and Fanscript folk.
Tentative for Bingo.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:34:56 AM
IPP Wick Check created.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
to Eua
Keep the Fanscription page.
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:33:26 AM
RIP Toriyama
I know nothing about how the Fanscription works, I'll have to look into the videos to see what kind of detail we're talking. If it really is just Doug/others mostly just saying a plot outline without too much in-universe dialogue, etc, then I'd unfortunately lean towards cutting, but I'll have to see.
Sure to Eua
Edited by Ravok on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:35:36 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Ordeaux26: If we cut the others I feel like that should go as well. It's just the same thing
There is also this:
- Counter Monkey: Tempus Thales, from the Thieves World story, is the most powerful soldier in the Ranken Empire, and only finds joy in war, murder, and rape. Charged with keeping the peace in the city of Sanctuary, he is initially an ally to the players, torturing twenty guards to death for robbing them. He then starts sending the players on jobs for him, planning on overthrowing the Ranken Prince in charge of the city with their help. Both Tempus and Noah's plans for the players are ruined when one of the players accidentally hits Tempus in the face with acid. His patron goddess then refuses to heal his face until he gets revenge on the players. When Tempus gets fed up with his failed attempts to catch the players, he starts taking more extreme steps, bringing in the Ranken military to brutally punish anyone who breaks the law. He then publicly declares that he will kill a random person every day, before brutally raping one of the players' Love Interest to death, and enacting a massacre on the citizens in the ensuing riot. When the players finally confront him, Tempus kills one of them, declaring that everything is their fault for not turning themselves in, and rips out and eats the heart of another to reclaim his healing.
This is just basically a guy describing a plot to us as well. How do we treat this?
Edited by Bullman on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:36:58 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Shin Megami Tensei IV
- Proyecto Cabra stories: The creature that would be known as "Till" is the worst creation of The Creator. Created using the agony of dying souls, the creature was sealed in the Dreamlands because his violent behaviour until a human named Brian liberates him by giving him the name "Till". Using his new name to escape, Till kills Brian's mortal body and later, when Brian's soul tries to escape the Dreamlands, Till devours him and his friend. Leaving the Dreamlands, Till manifest himself to countless humans in horrific situations to torture and kill them, leaving only three survivors to tell stories about him and tortures Douglas, administrator of the afterlife, in the most painful way to force him to feel fear, a emotional that Douglas was previously unable to feel. When the former human Luna turns into a Eldritch Abomination known as "Fear" because Till's actions, Till proposes Fear to join forces and establish a new order to overthrown the Creator and feed on human hearts.
Guys, opinions on Till?
Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:03:51 PM
Watch me destroying my country
@Rav They're more than that. They're formal What If? ideas displayed with definitive audio and visuals (with video also used at times and not just pictures). You of course can watch and judge for yourself and certainly don't need my permission to decide either way.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:39:43 AM
Eua & Pusca
I was off the thread for a while, the fuck is going on?
Barb / Temporary Kylo
If there are acted out segments and such potraying the story beyond just 'Here's a thing that could happen', then I think that's different from just a vague outline of a story.
Edited by Snoketrope on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:48:45 AM
The First man
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Many persons doing E Ps about characters whose actions spawn entire settings at the same time and we having a discussion about if stuff as Fanscriptions count as Fully-realized art works (and thus be treated as stories that can have C Ms)
Yeah. Its a mess.
Personally...Yeah.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:51:44 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Professor Gigachad
I have a feeling this could be a big discussion so I will keep track of the votes on the fate of the Fanscription like villains.
Keep: 7 (Bullman, futuremoviewriter, Myself (leaning), ImperialMajestyXO, Snoketrope (I think), KazuyaProta, nwotyzal (slight))
Cut: 5 (Scraggle, AustinDR, MasterJoseph, Beast, 43110)
Won't add the abstains.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 10:02:43 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I will admit, the whole thing of it being acted out does make me go with a slight yeah, cause it's at least trying to realize the plot rather than just say it. I will say I'm not going to lose any sleep if it gets cut though.
For the record, just incase this convo gets heated, Im gonna be off for tomorrow.
Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 22nd 2021 at 10:07:02 AM
Definite cut from me to the stuff that falls under just roughly outlining a plot. Going to abstain from Austin's candidate (I'm sure it's a very good EP, nevertheless) to avoid spoilers though!
The wifi here sucks
I don't care what happens to Fanscription but if it goes then Tempus should go as well since that video is less in depth than fanscription from what I understand.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I haven't watched Fanscription, so I'm not weighing in on that.
But yeah, the Counter Monkey videos pretty much consist of unedited rambles from Spoony about campaigns he either ran or was a part of. No visuals, no acting, characters aren't usually named, Noah tends to get distracted while telling his videos and often goes on tangents that last a long time.
I haven't seen Fanscription, but everything I heard about it suggests it's more professionally put-together than Counter Monkey was.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Oct 22nd 2021 at 1:09:36 PM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Riccardo & Catarina
So Bull mentioned some of the videos are mostly in character dialogue on MB and about an hour long. Is that true of most of the Fanscription stuff?
Also yes there Kazuya!
Edited by 43110 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 1:24:09 PM
to Red Skull, Ricardo, Caterina, Raven Beak, Siren Head, Slendy and Eua.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
There is definitely a lot of dialogue, but for a lot of the videos here they are usually 20 to 50 minutes. It just so happened that we got two M Bs from the longer ones.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Right. Both the MBs are in the two-parters. One of the two parters consists of an hour long video.
Professor Gigachad
With that in mind I am more comfortable with keeping the Fanscription ones, though it sounds like Tempus Thales should still be cut and I am not sure on Bingo.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Hey, so...here's a Halloween one I've kinda been waiting for...anyways, for Vyn's...this's sad, honestly, and I wish people could get other chances. But...lay out the ones Vyn approved and the rest of us can get to them.
What's the work?
The Great God Pan is perhaps the most famed story by horror writer Arthur Machen. A horror masterpiece that Stephen King considers maybe the most frightening story ever writte. The story is an epistolary form, where a man named Clarke agrees to participate in an experiment with his friend Dr. Raymond, opening the human mind to the supernatural, which allows one to see "the Great God Pan"...this is performed on a woman named Mary....unfortunately, Pan seemingly impregnates Mary with a daughter who kills her in the birthing.
Enter...Helen Vaughn
who is Helen Vaughn?
Wicked, perverse and in her village...strange things follow Helen. She tends to lead the children in strange revels, one of which robs the mind of one boy. Helen proceeds to befriend a girl named Rache, whom she takes into the woods. Rachel returns...half-naked, disheveled and with her sanity gone, demanding to her mother: "Why did you let me go into the woods with Helen!?" Rachel...soon vanishes in the woods...Clarke details all this, but our true hero arrives...Villiers who is seeking his distraught best friend Herbert...a rich man who...
Herbert and Helen married and Helen drove him to abject ruin, to corrupt him "in body and spirit." It's reveale dHelen murdered another noble who got too close....aware of the investigation? Helen eliminates Herbert who is found dead....Helen vanishes and is rumored to be taking part on dark rites and orgies. Arriving in London under the pseudonym Miss Beaumont, she begins to corrupt and drive young men to suicide.
villiers and Clark, however, finally trap and corner Helen with an implicit vow to expose her should she not end herself. With no recourse and worse awaiting her, Helen hangs herself, transforming between sex, going from human to beast and melting into a jelly-ish substance, dying abnormally and inhumanly...At least ending Helen's rapacious wickedness..
Mitigating issues?
The novella is told via letters and the like, a common form of lit in the late 1800s and the same way Dracula is written and Helen...hoo boy. The horror is what you don't see, but what we have? She corrupts and drives people to suicide and madness for kicks. She devours people body and soul...what Helen does to her victims is implicitly sexual in nature and drives them to suicide....with human sacrifice rumored in her rituals, with orgies to worship Pan.
This is a story that had a huge impact in horror, even on HP Lovecraft himself. The unspeakably awful stuff is just there off camera, but we know it's happening. Like...Helen rapes people, drives them to destruction and death, all because she can.
Conclusion?
A yes to the Great God Pan's wicked daughter.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 22nd 2021 at 10:39:52 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Oh her, didn't she inspire the Dunwich horror? Yes there.
The First man
Edited by The-Scarecrow on Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:35:43 PM