During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Okay, so...with Thunderbolt Fantasy Season 3 now done?
For those who don't know, it's an epic Chinese-style martial arts fantasy about a pair of warriors, one being a gleeful troll and the other a noble traveling wanderer...long ago, humankind fought the demons in the War of Fading Dusk. Today, a set of magic swords persist to cause trouble, with many wrapped up within them. Our villain is the wicked demon Zhao Jun Li, AKA: Seven Blasphemous Deaths.
Who is Zhao Jun Li?
A powerful demon and sadist who infiltrated the court of the mighty Emperor of Xi-You where she seduced him, ensnared him and made him her servant, having him turn his country into a charnel house. Countless people were tortured, slaughtered, butchered, with her gloating over all of it, remarking her wine always tasted better when it was paired with the screams of innocents torn apart by wild beasts.
Defeated at the conclusion of the War of Fading Dusk, a hero slew her, but as she died, she transferred her soul into the sword that had slain her with a powerful charm: Whoever draws the blade is consumed by bloodlust and others are driven to try to possess the sword and kill all around them with Zhao Jun Li in the driver seat. She made her killer slaughter his family and many others before he was killed and the sword taken.
This continues in cycles of others managing to seal the blade, but she always escapes and returns, becoming known as Seven Blasphemous Deaths, an evil cursed blade....in season 2? The sealed blade is stolen and the cause of a whole bunch of deaths with her feasting on the blood...until she's claimed by a psycho named Zhen Jie and begins inspiring him to kill...only to realize his insane obsession for her is hazardous to her own health....ending the season before the heroes can seal away Seven Blasphemous Deaths with Zhen Jie holding the blade and apparently falling to his death.
Seaon 3 hits and she's found and recovered while Zhen Jie still lives, her revealing her past to her demon sister Xing Hai, taking a new wielder and inspiring more horrific bloodshed and recovering her body, intending on bringing about a new catastrophe to the world...
But Zhen Jie? With the heroes facing her, he stabs her and traps her soul back in Seven Blasphemous Deaths and promising to never return, the psycho has one other hero teleport him into space while holding the sword...as he dies happily while holding Seven Blasphemous Deaths...who screams, realizing her destiny is to be trapped, floating through space for all time.
Mitigating issues?
Proabbly the most vile in the entire series. She's bad. Really, really bad. Big and small goals alike, Seven Blasphemous Deaths? She's full on Da Ji in her backstory with mountains of torture and slaughter through the kingdom she secretly ruled, then as a sword, she killed tons of people, corrupted countless people into puppets of slaughter...
She goes back the HS easily and no real agency issues. No good qualities to her, she gets on fine with her sister Xing Hai but has no real care for her at all. And Zhen Jie creeps her the hell out with how he can resist her charms, but nothing morally there.
Conclusion?
Easy keeper.
Yeah to Zhao Jun Li.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jul 17th 2021 at 9:47:09 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Does Zhao Jun Li meet the Heinousness Standard?
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
It clearly says in the EP that she does.
Professor Gigachad
I think he was confused since Lighty combines the mitigating factors section with the heinous standard.
Also ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
her.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 17th 2021 at 6:49:40 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Yeah I was confused for a sec. To Zhao.
I'd say she easily does. She's wantonly brutal, with a body count in the "countless" from her actions as 'Empress' of Xing-You, along with the way she's used herself since.
Goku Black
Zhao
Is the show still produced by Urobuchi?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I am sure Snowy had good intentions but yeah the effort post definitely inflated the tone those characters were played with.
What does it take for some of you not to pile on to people? The point's been fucking made. Is your intention to make people feel worse? Normalize not needing to respond if something that might make someone feel bad has been covered before.
Snowy's done good work. For whatever reason, they ended up mistaken on posts before. They ere given a second opinion, we voted. I hope to see more of Snowy's EP's in the future with the people they have put up.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
And I wholeheartedly agree with Lighty here.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Please don’t bring up shit that was resolved pages ago.
EDIT: Actually, maybe this also counts as piling-on.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jul 17th 2021 at 10:16:09 AM
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Zhao
I'm with Lighty on this one, I get having concerns about a work's tone being misrepresented but that's no reason to be mean to the person who did the proposing.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Professor Gigachad
Judging the tone of something I one of the hardest things to do since what is serious enough to one person may not be to another.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I see..
Well in that case, I'll just come out and say the last candidate so a background check can be done first since I'm not very unreliable..
The High Override. Always played seriously and never given a single comical moment. Threatens the whole planet and intends to harvest it. Is a constant danger that had Vilgax shitting himself and forced him to team up with Ben.
My hesitation came from first that there was a source to say his planet harvesting was to save his own destroyed planet. But first off that's Fridge Logic as he never states that himself. Second off, it was the Fulmini warring over energy and stealing energy from other planets that led to said destruction in the first place, so big hypocrisy in play.
If anyone would like to quick check him first before I go ahead
Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 17th 2021 at 7:22:07 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
I might have an image of Sanford Lowell from the Darkman comics for the CM image gallery. It's him as Matthew Hopkins by the way. Hopefully, you guys are able to see it >__<
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I mean, if we ever get one
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jul 17th 2021 at 10:26:10 AM
Professor Gigachad
Since we might be getting a Darkman page in the future it could be used for that.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
The Draftsman of Doom
The image works, but if you press the edit button on your troper page, upload an image, and copy the link it makes, there will be a better link, Power.
Feels good, don't it?
The Emperor of Evil!
I didn't know that, thanks for telling me.
Oh while we're at it. I'd like to propose a cut to a candidate I submitted last year to Artix Entertainment.
Dr. De'Sawed, this is his EP.
- Mogloween 2012: Dr. De'Sawed was the Chief of Medicine at Pandinus Asylum, the front of a cult performing immoral experiments on patients. The victims of his experiments haunt the asylum as nightmarish monsters, with many of them being cruelly tortured and left mentally broken, such as Xan. As his asylum was shut down but needing more test subjects, De'Sawed lures those he deems insane into the asylum with fake invitations, so that he can continue his experiments of bringing nightmares to life.
In light of my problem posts recently. De'Sawed I think is played too comically too. While his crimes are godawful, none of the characters take him seriously and he's given a very humiliating defeat.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 17th 2021 at 7:28:12 AM
Cut De'Sawed then.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Jul 17th 2021 at 7:40:32 AM
Oh okay. Just wanted to be sure.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates